1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Official Wedding Attire Question/Answer/Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by unbelragazzo, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Whole cuts are a bit different. Opera pumps are fairly uncommon (in North America, anyway) so you would see more Oxfords; the pumps would set you apart a bit. You could go for a formal loafer. Ferragamo makes a nice one, and there are others of higher, and lower quality/price. What is your budget?
     
  2. Shambles

    Shambles Member

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Funny, I actually looked at a Ferragamo loafer yesterday, the "Antoane". However, the $600 price tag set me off of it. I was really hoping to stay below $300.

    I figured oxfords might be the next choice, so I've been looking at some patent oxfords by a few companies lately as well. Seems like I can get a decent pair for around the $200 mark going that route. I'm not quite sure which loafers would be acceptable with the tux, so I can't tell if $300 is way off or in the ballpark for a decent one.
     
  3. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I have a pair of Calin Klein Guildfords. They're a chisel toe, but not a harsh one. They're nothing special, quality-wise, but well worth the $130 price tag.
     
  4. Shambles

    Shambles Member

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Thanks for the suggestion, I do like the Guildford. That's almost exactly what I pictured as far as a modern substitute for the pump.
     
  5. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

    Messages:
    5,225
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    

    Opera pumps or plain toe oxfords. Loafers are generally way too informal for a tuxedo, stitch or punch cap oxfords are suboptimal (there will be worse shoes at most black tie events and these can do in a pinch if you do not want to buy shoes for your black tie rig, but if you are going to buy shoes, do it right).
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Formal loafers are a variant of the opera pump, basically with a longer upper, with a silk bow. It allows the to be made rtw and still fit pretty well, whereas opera pumps have to be a nearly perfect fit.
     
  7. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

    Messages:
    5,225
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    

    They still seem like a confused item to me and a needless contemporary option. Plain toe oxfords are formal by their very nature. Pumps are formal for the same reason. The "formal loafer" idea strikes me as a weird attempt to dress up a shoe that belongs on the casual end of the spectrum. If one does not fit into pumps, plain toe oxfords are always an option.
     
  8. MGD83

    MGD83 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,090
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    I'm beginning to feel like the black wholecut oxford is THE formal shoe for today's well dressed gentlemen. It works with tuxedo dress, or really any other formal occasion like weddings, galas, etc. The only setting I can see it not working in is the office boardroom.

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
     
  9. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I find that the plainness of them works quite well. The ones I have seen do not have the air of informality that a regular loafer has. The smooth upper, running straight into the trouser leg, I find preferable to laces, personally. Though, the interruption of laces can be ameliorated by lacing your shoes with silk ribbon.

    That's not to say I think Oxfords are inappropriate; I think they are a perfectly good option. Whole cuts not tradtional either, but for the same reasons of the minimalist design, that I favour the formal loafer, they work quite well.

    I would say that, if you are going to wear formal loafers, as with pumps, silk dress hose are mandatory. The whole aesthetic I just described could easily be ruined by anything thicker, or with a fuzzy texture. While I think there are some calf formal loafers on the market, I think they do risk being in the "not sure if on purpose" category. Patent leather ones, at a bare minimum, indicate that one clearly made a conscious choice of these shoes for formal attire.

    I readily concede that the formal loafer is a newer item, and may, or may not, be here to stay. I think it's quite good that we have made arguments both for, and against, the shoe, so that @Shambles can consider them, and form his own opinion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    If one was to have only one pair of dress shoes, I would say that it should be a black cap toe Oxford/Balmoral, or second place going to plain toe balmorals. Cap toes are imperfect, but valid, with evening formal wear, perfect with a suit, adequate with a blazer, and passable with a sport coat. Plain toes would be perfect for evening formal wear, fine with a suit, or blazer, and a bit out of place, but not ridiculously so, with a sport coat.

    I don't know how the whole cut would be received in the realm of CBD; I'm going on your criticism of it that it would not be ideal, to exclude it. I think it's an excellent option as a formal shoe, whether calf, or patent.
     
  11. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

    Messages:
    5,225
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    

    Not sure if you are referring to an actual wholecut or just a plain toe oxford. The wholecut is not as well suited to the events you mention because it is more casual. A black plain toe oxford on the other hand can be a very elegant shoe. I think that a stitch cap oxford is a better choice, as it is the optimal shoe when one is wearing a suit, which probably happens more often than one wearing black tie. I'd rather wear stitch cap oxfords to a black tie event than plain toe oxfords for business.
     
  12. MGD83

    MGD83 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,090
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Archibald, I was always under the press ion that the less detail a shoe has, the more formal it is considered. Does a wholecut not fall under this category?
     
  13. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

    Messages:
    5,225
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    

    Generally, this is a fair way to look at different types of shoes within the same category. For example, a plain toe oxford is more formal than a stitch cap oxford which in turn is more formal than wingtips (leaving out a number of other styles of oxfords in between). It does not work quite so well when looking at shoes across different categories. For example, a plain toe derby is probably still less formal than a half brogue oxford since a derby is more casual than an oxford. The most formal shoe one can wear in the evening (for black and white tie) is an opera pump, which is definitely not lacking in extra details. The issue with wholecuts is that they are not classic formal shoes, so while they may check the right boxes with respect to not having a lot of detail / decoration, they are a bit less conservative and more fashion forward than the classic oxford.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I would agree that they are fashion forward, and less classic. I do, however, think that they suit a Tuxedo, because of the reasons @MGD83 states. They may pass out of fashion again, as the cummervest did, or they may stick around, as the cummerbund did. In the mean time, if you want to be strictly traditional, @archibaldleach's advice hits the mark. If you want to push the envelope a little, whole cuts, or formal loafers are am option for you.

    I would contest that the opera pump isn't plain. Aside from the silk bow, it has no ornamentation at all.
     
  15. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

    Messages:
    5,225
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    ^ The silk bow is a pretty big deal, though, and not that subtle. Way more noticeable that you are wearing shoes with bows on them than a stitch cap vs. plain toe oxford or even plain toe oxford vs. wholecut.
     
  16. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I suppose it is quite noticeable, but then, so are laces. Less so, I suppose, since they fall under the trouser hem. Fair point, on the pump being more eye catching than an Oxford.

    Formality is defined by convention, with some internal guidelines. With Black Tie, I find these variants of footwear within the spirit of the many subtle details one can vary within a dinner suit, as opposed to the strict rigidity of White Tie.
     
  17. Shambles

    Shambles Member

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    I think after reading the discussions from you all, I may either stick with full tradition and wear the opera pumps or go with a plain toe oxford. Either option will only be worn with the tux, and only a few times a year, so I am still hoping to stay in a manageable price range, but I understand the concern that the more fashion forward loafers may fall out of use in the future.

    I appreciate the debate and help on the shoe issue. The same appreciation goes toward anyone willing to lend their opinion to H. Freeman MTM tuxedos, if they have experience with them. I have yet to begin the process other than picking out the look, so there are a couple routes I can take here as well.
     
  18. ellsbebc

    ellsbebc Senior member

    Messages:
    752
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Seeking opinion gents, but our opinions may be overruled if the bride insists. If you recall, I am wearing a mid-grey suit and POW tie and the groomsmen mid/dark grey suits. Bridesmaids in navy summer dresses. Bride is wearing the traditional white dress and have a purple/lavender bouquet. I was thinking no boutonnière for the groomsmen and get one for myself. My opinion is a classic white boutonnière and lavender while the bride wants a lavender rose. Opinions?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  19. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Senior member

    Messages:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    

    I am assuming a white shirt?

    Either will look lovely. I think boutonnieres for the whole party is quite nice, and is the traditional thing, but down to your preference. With the quiet look you have, I think the lavender rose would add a nice bit of colour, and I quite like purple range colours with grey. The white will look very elegant, and clean.

    Either way I don't think you can go wrong. Depends, really, if you want a monochromatic look (which will be very nice), or you want to add a pop of colour (which will be very nice).

    So, I would go with your preference of the white and lavender, for the simple reason that it is your preference. With the simplistic, formal combination you are wearing, I would also make sure that you don't overdo the decoration (baby's breath and all that) on your bout. Nothing wrong with the combination of flowers you suggest, but I would not recommend any further embellishments, personally.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by