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Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Jr Mouse, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    It's not at all implausible in the Star Wars universe. That's not the problem. The problem is that a pivotal plot point (Poe escaping the clutches of the First Order) is taken halfway, and then we leave it completely. It's as if the escape of the Millenium Falcon from the Star Destroyer in ANH was abruptly cut from the Ben Kenobi skulking around, to the Falcon landing on the Rebel base, and then we are told. "Oh, right, Ben Kenobi died, but we managed to get off the Star Destroyer. It was dicey for a moment." then yes, that would be a huge WTF moment. Yes, in the SW universe, more implausible things could have happened in the meantime, off stage, but they are not part of the narrative unfolding onscreen. The first stanza of the movie deals with two things: 1) Finn defecting, 2) Poe being captured and then escaping. The second is given zero resolution other than "Oh yeah, he lived".

    Darth Vader being spun out into space, that was the conclusion of that particular action, at the end of ANH. Same goes with Captain Phasma's summarily being toss into a trash compactor. That action, we rightly assumed, occurs off stage in BETWEEN movies. If either had happened at the beginning of the movie, and been big parts of the plot, and then the characters appear again during the same movie, with a throwaway line of dialogue, then yes, that too would have been bad storytelling.
     
  2. Ataturk

    Ataturk Senior member

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    Honestly, that's silly. Finn is one of the protagonists of the movie. Thinking Poe is dead helps the audience experience what he's feeling at the time.

    That being said I wish they'd have let him die. Watching him shoot down 10 tie fighters over the course of 30 seconds or so was one of the stupidest moments in the movie (and that's saying something).
     
  3. otc

    otc Senior member

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    Watched it again. Really not bothered by the Finn and Ren fight.

    Seemed pretty clear that despite his injuries, Ren was toying with him. At one point he is just walking along, not in fighting stance, casually swinging his lightsaber with only one hand to beat away Finn's blows. His cockiness (gets that from his father I guess) is the only reason Finn manages to nick him in the arm. That injury makes him mad and he soon dispatches Finn and leaves him for dead.

    Also noticed something about the twirly-weapon anti-lightsaber stormtrooper. When he sees Finn, he casts aside a riot shield and some other weapon (not sure if it was a blaster or some sort stun baton). So it seems like he was equipped for some level of melee combat unlike a normal storm trooper.
     
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  4. Suntory

    Suntory Senior member

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    Am I the only guy who wants to see the Stormtrooper who cock-blocked the lightsaber by calling our hero a "traitor", to be given more screen time for the next movies?
     
  5. Ataturk

    Ataturk Senior member

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    As a rotting corpse?
     
  6. Suntory

    Suntory Senior member

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    Pretty sure Vader took that credit hours after his body was burnt in ROTJ.
     
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  7. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    Never mention "Phantom Menance" and "A New Hope" in the same sentence. That's blasphemy..
     
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  8. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    That really should have been Captain Phasma. It would have given her a really cool scene and set her up much better for the rest of the trilogy.




    Am I the only one who picked up on the fact that:

    When Kylo set his helmet down in that room the small pile of ashes he placed it on might have been gathered from where Vader was burned?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
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  9. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Interesting concept art for TFA reveals what might have been:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...r-was-going-to-be-in-the-sequel-a6787416.html


    It's an interesting concept. Even in death Anakin might still be struggling with the dark side, but I am glad it stayed out of this film. There really wasn't a place for it and Disney was rightfully keen to distance themselves from the Prequels. As said in the link above, only Ewan McGregor’s Obi-Wan Kenobi made a brief appearance in voice only to Rey.

    It's been pointed out that early concept art for SW has a tendency to make it into future films. So be open to the possibility this may happen in a future installment of the franchise.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  10. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    Rey Kenobi. Book it!
     
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  11. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The problem with this is two fold. She couldn't be his daughter as the timeline's don't add up and her being a granddaughter leaves too much unexplored family nonsense out there. The you have the problem with a Kenobi being theoretically stronger in the force then someone related the the Skywalker lineage. It just don't work in my mind. The main trilogies needs to center around Skywalkers, even if this ends up making the whole universe feel small.
     
  12. Ataturk

    Ataturk Senior member

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    It turns out they managed to cut / assemble audio of Alec Guinness saying "Rey" for the vision scene. That was a nice touch.
     
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  13. edinatlanta

    edinatlanta Senior member

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    Seen it twice in three days now (kind of by accident). First in 2D, second in 3D IMAX because my date wanted to. Surprise surprise, 3D did nothing for the film. Made some of the ships seem smaller than in 2D and Kylo/Darth's helmets were larger than life which was weird as all get out.

    No other film franchise could re-tell the same story three times in four movies and get away with it.

    I appreciate Mouse fighting the good fight being the film's apologist but that review you just posted was patently absurd. I don't know how having a team of X-Wing fighters blow up a spherical space ship is fundamentally different than Ep IV or VI. Oh, wait, this one's bigger but needs fewer fighters and less time to destroy? And the Dark Side hasn't learned from two other times how to prevent its giant ships being blown up by the same armada? And they are supposed to be feared? OK. Hell, they even recycle (pun intended) multiple tropes about garbage systems. I mean, it was entertaining enough and it was fun but come on, that's pure mimicry and unoriginality. If you like it, you like it but there's no other way to describe what's happened if you are free from the fandom-colored glasses.

    What was the point of Kylo's mask if he can just take it off at will and suffers no ill effects sans headgear? It's a small point in the overall plot but the mask, the voice, all of it contributed to a very dramatic, lasting image of the film and... it was all useless. Also, why were there seemingly no Knights in his order?

    Poe's return was a little cockamamie but I suppose considering how far away Finn was and not being part of the movement it isn't totally implausible that the former was rescued without the the latter or something, anything.

    What happened to Phasma? There's no mention of her death/being tied up/anything at all. So they capture the head of the stormtroopers and just leave her in a room and she doesn't alert anyone, she can't immediately shoot them in the back... nothing? OK.

    Maz Canada was a great reference to Sergio Mendes. A little upset that my dad had to point that out to me.

    Overall this certainly was not a great film. It's the fourth-best SW and decent overall. Certainly fun, captured the spirit that made the real trilogy great and felt like a Star Wars film, even before the old gang came into picture.


    I think you're missing the complaints. A willing suspension of disbelief is as old as theater. We're willing to accept a line or two to keep things moving and not get bogged down in boredom/uselessness. However, with TFA there's more of a death-by-a-thousand-cuts scenario where the writers were just lazy or wanted to spend more time on cheap battle scenes than giving characters or moments more depth. Again, the battles were fun, they all contributed to a decent movie. But there are too many at best shortcuts or at worst times where the writers just didn't care that you start to have a major weakness in the film.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  14. edinatlanta

    edinatlanta Senior member

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    ..
     
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  15. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I don't have time to "apologize" (such a lazy accusation to toss out) and will have to address most of your post later but this made me giggle:


    So you missed the part where they said they were going to lock her up in the trash compactor? It was played up for big laughs in my showings. How do you expect her to alert anyone when dealing with that? How would she shoot anyone in the back when logically she would have been disarmed. This is an epic phail even for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  16. Ataturk

    Ataturk Senior member

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    Haven't been following Star Trek have you? The last three movies have been ripoffs of Wrath of Khan.
     
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  17. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Look I didn't think Into Darkness was a great film by any means, but it was by no means a retelling of the plot of Wrath of Khan. They took Khan himself, re-told the scene of Spock dying with a twist at the end and blew up Khan's ship in a vaguely similar fashion. Otherwise the plot and pacing is almost completely different. Characters from the old star trek universe making appearances in the rebooted one is going to be par for course. Part of the whole point of the reboot was to mine the old and provide fresh takes on it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  18. Ataturk

    Ataturk Senior member

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    And Return of the Jedi isn't a retelling of the original Star Wars by that extraordinarily lenient definition. So what?

    At least you can defend Star Wars by saying that blowing up Death Stars is what it's about. Star Trek, on the other hand, isn't about angry people coming after you for revenge.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  19. edinatlanta

    edinatlanta Senior member

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    It's not a bad thing to be an apologist...


    I guess so or I just don't remember it.
     
  20. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Isn't the problem with ST that Wrath of Khan was so good? It's easily the best of the films and a case could be made that it's one of the best revenge films ever made. So yeah, writers and directors are going to try and recapture some of that magic. As I said, I didn't find ID that compelling of a film, but I by no means think it's as bad you you seem to. It was a miss for sure when compared to how good the first of the JJ Star Trek films was.

    FWIW Simon Pegg wrote ST Beyond and is a huge fan of the original series. He's been quoted as saying the trailer was cut to get general audiences excited. The film itself is supposed to have much more of a classic Trek feel then the first two, according to him. I have no way of knowing if he's speaking the truth, but I think it is fair to give him a benefit of a doubt.
     

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