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Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

Harold falcon

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Or the Hidden Fortress needs a good soft reboot. No blacks, Hispanics, gays, or trannies in that.
 

Gibonius

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I thought the X-wing video games were cool as hell back in their day, and I liked that they tried to make the games into serious simulators; but they were not good at it. Without gravity and air resistance you can't simulate energy (momentum + stored energy from altitude) which is what WW2 dogfighting revolved around, you don't slow down when you turn, you can't dive or climb, you don't have variable performance at speed or altitude, different roll rates, you can't fly out of the sun or stall or do any of the million things that make real air combat interesting.
You can slow down when you turn and - in fact that's the tactic i always used with x-wing/a-wing when getting on TF/TI back. In a way because of lower speed/shorter turn, concentrated fire and strong shields Y-wing was as good or better than A-wing and X-wing in this game. Which is funny since that's what you said how it felt in the movie. You can dive/climb in limited way, control speed etc. You have to manage your shield and weapon recharge it's obviously not a complex simulator but not a totally dumb one either and the game challenges you it's not super easy.
I loved the XWing and TIE Fighter games, but they were "simulating" something totally not based on physics. They were fun, and a good representation of Star Wars space combat, but Star Wars has a tenuous connection to anything physics in the first place so there's kind of an upper limit on how realistic it could be. If you accept them for that, they were very good games.

They had some brutally hard sections, I'll give them that. One of the XWing missions was so infamously hard that it showed up in one of the (terrible) XWing series books as a supposedly impossible training mission.
 

otc

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I'd say that the original movie depicts the y wings in the previously described light.

They seem to be acting like less nimble heavy bombers meant to drop a load on the death star while the x wings engage the tie fighters.

Who knows what happened in rotj... They just wanted to have a bunch of ships fighting.
 

Gibonius

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Lasers make noise in Star Wars. We should probably not think too hard about the realism.
 

Ataturk

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The complaint isn't that the game wasn't realistic, it that's it was boring because the rules of the universe don't allow for an interesting flight simulator.

And the complaint about the post-original-trilogy "universe" isn't that it's unrealistic, either---it's that it's inconsistent. Yeah, it's about space wizards with lasers that make noise and space ships that fly like they're in the air. So what? Stop fucking saying that. All fiction deviates from reality. But if it's inconsistent or it doesn't make sense within its own universe, it's just shit.
 

Jr Mouse

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I alluded to this earlier, but I just want to reiterate that I hate every bit of Star Wars other than the original movies. Even the best "extended universe" stuff, which I thought was bad when I was first exposed to it, is outright atrocious with the benefit of age.

Rewatching Return of the Jedi recently I was struck by one minor point of accepted Star Wars lore that appears to be totally wrong when compared to the movies: the "Y-Wing" fighter. You know, the other make of fighter from the original Star Wars movie, the one used by the "Gold Squadron" guys. It's big and looks like a P-38.

According to Star Wars lore it's supposed to be an old and slow bomber. You see it portrayed that way in Rogue One. It's contrasted with the "A-Wing," the little arrowhead-shaped fighter that first appears in Return of the Jedi, which is supposed to be super fast and maneuverable.

But if you actually watch the movies this is exactly opposite of how they appear on screen. The Y-Wing has two huge engines and is apparently based on the P-38, which wasn't called the "lightning" because it was slow. In ROTJ, you see Y-wings repeatedly overtaking and destroying enemy fighters, while the A-wing never scores a victory on a fighter from behind and several are lost when they're overtaken. The only time a Y-wing is overtaken it appears to be because it was stuck behind several other ships. And it's the A-wing you see attacking capital ships, never a Y-Wing. Then there's a scene where an A-wing is overtaken by two TIE fighters, which destroy it, but are themselves overtaken by a Y-wing and destroyed.

View attachment 1162224

Considering things like this, no surprise all the post-original trilogy Star Wars is shit. I know I've posted about it before, but probably the best example was "The Last Jedi," the title for the movie Ryan Johnson got from the "Last Jedi Temple" in the awful JJ Abrams movie. Except it was actually the "First Jedi Temple"; the guy is just _that_ stupid. And the people at Disney were too busy making sure the movies had representation from both Polynesian and Melanesian extras to notice.

Holy fuck dude. You just wrote 370 words to complain that a random spaceship on screen didn't perfectly match up with the technical description from some "lore" you read. I mean who gives a fuck?

And you guys give ME shit around here for being a little too into this stuff. :foo:
 

Ataturk

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Holy fuck dude. You just wrote 370 words to complain that a random spaceship on screen didn't perfectly match up with the technical description from some "lore" you read. I mean who gives a fuck?

And you guys give ME shit around here for being a little too into this stuff. :foo:
It's not random, dumbass. It's basic pattern matching, what separates (some of) us from stupid animals. I see the way the world is (or some speculative world, this is what you'd call abstract reasoning). I predict how it should operate in the future. And when it doesn't work that way I learn from my mistakes---but that gets short circuited when it doesn't work the way it was supposed to because some dipshit fucked it up. You broke the most fundamental thing that makes me human. That makes me mad. Why shouldn't it?
 

Ataturk

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I'd say that the original movie depicts the y wings in the previously described light.

They seem to be acting like less nimble heavy bombers meant to drop a load on the death star while the x wings engage the tie fighters.

Who knows what happened in rotj... They just wanted to have a bunch of ships fighting.
Where are you getting this from? In Star Wars Y-wings make up a minority of the fighters---at one point it's said there are thirty total fighters, when you see them approaching you can see 17. Just three of those are y-wings. The inference is that there are just 5 or 6 of them. Then three y-wings make the first run on the exhaust port (and fail) while the rest of the fighters harass to draw fire (the TIE fighters don't show up until later). You never see a Y-wing dogfighting on screen, but at the end you see three surviving fighters. Two are X-wings (Luke and Wedge) who'd quit the fight early so they could make a run on the exhaust port.

Ultimately you conclude that there were 18 X-wings and 3 Y-wings in the melee. At the end you see there's Luke and Wedge (who quit the fight early) and one survivor from the dogfight---and it's a Y-wing. So I don't see how you can infer that they're poor fighters.
 

Ataturk

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By analogy:



If you had to fight a jet, which would you rather have?

Hint: the big ones with two engines are the better ones.
 

wojt

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iirc in the first shot of the swarm of fighters approaching Deathstar there are 2 wings of them(5-6 fighters)
 

wojt

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would have to check on the original tapes , anyway we see one wing shot down(3 fighters) and there's one left at the end so the movie implies there were more than 3
 

brokencycle

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By analogy:



If you had to fight a jet, which would you rather have?

Hint: the big ones with two engines are the better ones.
Obviously I would take the F-22 because it is 20 years newer than most on the list, so it has better everything. The F-35 is technically a combined role plane that has been notorious for problems so that was excluded.
 

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