Of Macclesfield ties & fudge welts

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by AlanC, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    I read from time to time of Macclesfield ties, which were quite popular in the early part of the 20th C. Apparently they are a rough woven tie of repeating geometric shapes (circles?), but for the life of me I can't find a picture that actually shows what they look like. Are they commonly made/worn today? Could someone post a picture showing the Macclesfield texture?

    Unrelated, but also confusing to me is the term 'fudge welt', which I see in the Edward Green catalog poster. Does anyone have an explanation and picture illustrating what the fudge welt is?

    Signed,
    Sartorially Curious in Dixie
     


  2. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Senior member

    Messages:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    SE Michigan (frequent NYC visitor)
    The newest Alan Flusser book, "Dressing the Man", contains an extensive description and photos of the Macclesfield ties.

    Edit: Pleased Kentucky won on your birthday.
     


  3. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    Yes, more pleased had they not fallen apart yesterday. Still, I'll live with our 2 seed in the tourney.

    Hmm, building pressure to actually buy the Flusser book.
     


  4. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Location:
    East Hampton & New York
    I have been under the possibly mistaken impression that a Macclesfield had more to do with coloration (black and silver) rather than texture, but shall gladly await the authority of Manton.
     


  5. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,574
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Macclesfield is a parish in the north of England where French Hugenot weavers settled after Louis XIV revoked the Edit of Nantes and kicked them out of France.  It has been a center of woven silk manufacture for many years.

    When refering to ties, "Macclesfield" refers first to a tie made from silk woven in that parish.  It has also come to mean any similiarly woven silk, no matter where it is made.  Traditioanally, Macclesfield silk is made in tight woven patterns, with relatively small designs.  The most common Macclesfields are indeed black and white or black and silver, but that's not a requirement.  They are perhaps the most common because in England and a lot of Europe these are (or used to be) considered the "correct" wedding tie for wear with a morning suit (turn down collar shirt only) or dark lounge suit.  This practice of having all groomsmen dress identically is a fairly recent American invention.  So a well-dressed Englishman or European used to have a few such ties for weddings, christenings, and other "happy" formal occasions.

    There is another parish called Spitalsfield, which is in East London, where they make (or used to make) a similar kind of woven silk.  Traditionally, a Spitalsfield design has a larger scale than a Macclesfield.
     


  6. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    Are they still woven in Macclesfield? Pictures, anyone?
     


  7. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,574
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    I believe they are. As for pictures, I couldn't find any readily available on the web. Do you have any of the "usual suspect" clothing books?
     


  8. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    Don't have the Flusser mentioned above (must get it). I do have Roetzel (and Boyer's Elegance, but just drawings in it).

    I've done lots of searches trying to turn up online pictures. I found a couple of bow ties, but couldn't distinguish the weave. Doesn't anyone actually sell these things?
     


  9. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Senior member

    Messages:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    SE Michigan (frequent NYC visitor)


  10. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,574
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Check pages 66 & 67 of Roetzel. Â The tie in the "wrong" photos is a Macclesfield, Â Not a quintessintial Macclesfield, but a decent enough example. Â For textbook Macclesfields, check Dressing the Man, p. 147.
     


  11. Bradford

    Bradford Current Events Moderator

    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    153
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2002
    Location:
    Phoenix
    (STYLESTUDENT @ Mar. 14 2005,08:28) Edit: Pleased Kentucky won on your birthday.
    Yes, more pleased had they not fallen apart yesterday. Still, I'll live with our 2 seed in the tourney. Hmm, building pressure to actually buy the Flusser book.
    Better a 2 seed than Arizona's 3-seed... As for the Flusser book, I saw an advertisement that it is currently available for less than sticker price at SteinMart. They are carrying a Flusser line of clothing now, so if you have that store in your neck of the woods, you might want to check it out. Bradford
     


  12. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    18,647
    Likes Received:
    102
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Location:
    In the not too distant future
    I got one, by H&K. Remind me to send a picture.
     


  13. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    4,454
    Likes Received:
    873
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Location:
    London, UK
    Edward Green's "fudge welt" (no idea where the name comes from) is basically the same thing as the "storm welt" or "split-reverse welt" of other manufacturers.

    While a normal welt is a plain leather strip, the storm welt gets slit horizontally (maybe 2/3rds down). The top section is turned up against the sides of the shoe, to form a seal against water penetration while the lover section gets stitched underneath the shoe (like an ordinary welt).
     


  14. Concordia

    Concordia Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    5,839
    Likes Received:
    609
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    What amazes me is that you sometimes see suede oxfords advertised with this feature.
     


  15. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    Hmm, the Roetzel pic isn't really what I had imagined at all. I'll have to check out the Flusser. Of course if someone wanted to scan it... Thanks for the help folks.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by