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NYT: "Venice, Invaded by Tourists, Risks Becoming ‘Disneyland on the Sea’"

jrd617

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Saw this article. Have not been to Venice since 2003. Very sad. I did not realize they started letting in big cruise ships

Did Venice ever have any good menswear artisans?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/...owMC&subid=HighADLowMC&ad-keywords=AudDevGate

@Ich_Dien

Venice, Invaded by Tourists, Risks Becoming ‘Disneyland on the Sea’

xxVenice-slide-Z04O-superJumbo.jpg


VENICE — “You guys, just say ‘skooozy’ and walk through,” a young American woman commanded her friends, caught in one of the bottlenecks of tourist traffic that clog Venice’s narrow streets, choke its glorious squares and push the locals of this enchanting floating city out and onto drab, dry land. “We don’t have time!”

Neither, the Italian government worries, does Venice.

Don’t look now, but Venice, once a great maritime and mercantile power, risks being conquered by day-trippers.

The soundtrack of the city is now the wheels of rolling luggage thumping up against the steps of footbridges as phalanxes of tourists march over the city’s canals. Snippets of Venetian dialect can still be heard between the gondoliers rowing selfie-snapping couples. But the lingua franca is a foreign mash-up of English, Chinese and whatever other tongue the mega cruise ships and low-cost flights have delivered that morning. Hotels have replaced homes.

Italian government officials, lamenting what they call “low-quality tourism,” are considering limiting the numbers of tourists who can enter the city or its landmark piazzas.

Continue reading the main story


“If you arrive on a big ship, get off, you have two or three hours, follow someone holding a flag to Piazzale Roma, Ponte di Rialto and San Marco and turn around,” said Dario Franceschini, Italy’s culture minister, who lamented what he called an “Eat and Flee” brand of tourism that had brought the sinking city so low.

“The beauty of Italian towns is not only the architecture, it’s also the actual activity of the place, the stores, the workshops,” Mr. Franceschini added. “We need to save its identity.”

The city’s locals, whatever is left of them anyway, feel inundated by the 20 million or so tourists each year. Stores have taken to putting signs on the windows showing the direction to St. Mark’s Square or Ponte di Rialto, so people will stop coming in to ask them where to go.
 
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Andy57

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jrd617

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THE NEW YORK TIMES IS FAKE NEWS!!!!

Kidding aside, if the article says the resident population is deteriorating and that "old world" artisinal shops have closed, it is not reasonable to wonder what menswear artisans might have been lost in the past 20 years? (Even if Venice did not have the biggest menswear profile to begin with, like Rome or Florence)
 

jrd617

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Belvest is in the Venice area, but they're a big company.

I'm talking about the little guys that have gone out of business or maybe fled to other islands
 

Ich_Dien

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It really is news. If you consider that I can walk across the entirety of residential Venice in about forty minutes, then you might be able to grasp what an influx of roughly 90,000 people a day in the high season can do to such a small city (the population is only 60,000). Larger cities can deal with such a high amount of tourists, Venice really cannot.

There have been many many closures of shops that catered originally only to locals as well as artisanal shops. It's very hard for me to buy good quality things most people would take for granted now. The supermarket (which is mainly full of things tourists need) is now the only real viable option for most things. Vast swathes of commercial property lay vacant.

For menswear the situation is incredibly bleak. I have seen, on older friends and in second hand shops, fine examples of bespoke tailoring from tailors that used to exist in Venice. Now I can think of only one. There is still one bespoke shoemaker who seems to be doing well.

Belvest is actually closer to Mantova, and whilst the Veneto in itself is still going strong for menswear then the outlook for Venice is bleak to say the best, the majority of good menswear shops have now closed down. One of my particular favourites, which stocked EG, JL, Tricker's, Drake's, PRL, RLPL, Corneliani, Caruso, Attolini, La Vera Sartoria, Sartorio, Stile Latino, Kiton and many more is now a Murano glass shop.

All things considered, the city is dying. There is a mass exodus of locals, particularly the young. It is nigh on impossible to find property (especially at a decent price to rent) as a large majority is now owned to rent to tourists and those that are for sale / rent are priced accordingly. Unless you work in the tourist industry or for the local government / law agency (Venice being the historic capital of Veneto and as such the epicentre for all those things) then good luck finding employment. Out of many of my friends I met when I moved to Venice as a young man, probably 20% have chosen to remain, a problem endemic to Italy as a whole but exaggerated here.

I'm considering moving somewhere else in Italy myself to be honest as I don't see it changing any time soon. The vocal majority are those who lose the most from tourism, yet unfortunately the ones who gain the most are those who have the influence, wealth and power to change the status quo yet nil desire to do so.
 

jrd617

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Sad!

Who is the shoemaker and who were the old tailors?
 

J o s h

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@Ich_Dien that is sad. I was in Venice for several days in 2003, on my honeymoon. Even then I felt that the city was overrun. I am glad to have been there and experienced Venice, but am not looking to return.
 

ilsartodoro

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UNESCO is bigger part of the problem that is not doing anything but rather allowing this to happend.
Also I find ridiculous that tourist focus only on few cities in italy, leaving the rest of cities, and also mediterrian countries around italy in europe unexplored which also have plenty of history.
 
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Andy57

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I love Venice, I enjoy going there. I go there, I am a tourist and I go there to do tourist things. I want to stand in St Mark's Square, I want to cruise the GC, I want to cross the Rialto Bridge, I want to eat in a superb restaurant, I want a drink at Harry's Bar, I want to visit Murano, etc, etc. I want to go back to Venice before it disappears under the waves. I fear my grandchildren will not be able to visit Venice because it will not exist. That is the sad part, because there is absolutely no place else like it in the world.

I don't go there for the menswear.

We are all tourists. If you visit a place and you don't live there, you are a tourist. You are not different from all the other people there. The tourist problem you see and complain about: you are part of the problem. Tourists are not spoiling the experience for you. You are.

Travelers have been complaining about the impact of tourists on the places they visit for decades, maybe even longer. In the case of Venice, the irony is that the city only exists as it is now because of tourism. Most of the residents who have left would have left anyway. Why? Jobs. Quality of life. Venice is a damned inconvenient place to live. This problem is not unique to this unique city.

Go to London or Paris or San Francisco or New York or dozens of other cities this time of year. It's almost impossible to find a hotel, get a table in a restaurant, or walk on the streets for all the people who are there visiting from somewhere else. Tourists. Including you. Except that all these other people are inconsiderately ruining your experience. That's narcissism on a Trumpian scale.

Yogi Bara said it best "nobody goes there any more--it's too crowded"
 
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ilsartodoro

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Venezia exist because is among UNESCO protected places. Tourism
adds to the economy but also has an expense, its Italian goverment duty to protect it from anything that has a negative impact, and UNESCO to advise policies and even to agressively push or helping to implementing them when necessary.
Also around there are plenty of other places equally rich in history as Croatia among many others.
 
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Ich_Dien

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@Andy57

You sound like the exact tourist Venice, or anywhere for that matter, desires. Respectful, educated and appreciative.

The problem at the moment is that the grand majority are unfortunately not like you; hence the Disneyland on the sea comment.

I know it's the same everywhere, but Venice seems to have suffered from a higher quota of the true "mass" tourism problem. If there are five cruise ships in the terminal that is ca. 12,000 people who enter the city, maybe buy a coffee, and leave because their ship provides everything they want for free.

Your point about snobbery is, unfortunately, spot on. However, the knock on effect of the mass tourism is that the finer things associated with Venice are dying out because the majority of tourists have either no desire to buy them or the money.

In this city there are people like me, there are Venetian families with children, there is a higher proportion of older people. None of them, and nobody for that matter, wishes to live in a city sculpted by tourism.


I love Venice, I enjoy going there. I go there, I am a tourist and I go there to do tourist things. I want to stand in St Mark's Square, I want to cruise the GC, I want to cross the Rialto Bridge, I want to eat in a superb restaurant, I want a drink at Harry's Bar, I want to visit Murano, etc, etc. I want to go back to Venice before it disappears under the waves. I fear my grandchildren will not be able to visit Venice because it will not exist. That is the sad part, because there is absolutely no place else like it in the world.

I don't go there for the menswear.

We are all tourists. If you visit a place and you don't live there, you are a tourist. You are not different from all the other people there. The tourist problem you see and complain about: you are part of the problem. Tourists are not spoiling the experience for you. You are.

Travelers have been complaining about the impact of tourists on the places they visit for decades, maybe even longer. In the case of Venice, the irony is that the city only exists as it is now because of tourism. Most of the residents who have left would have left anyway. Why? Jobs. Quality of life. Venice is a damned inconvenient place to live. This problem is not unique to this unique city.

Go to London or Paris or San Francisco or New York or dozens of other cities this time of year. It's almost impossible to find a hotel, get a table in a restaurant, or walk on the streets for all the people who are there visiting from somewhere else. Tourists. Including you. Except that all these other people are inconsiderately ruining your experience. That's narcissism on a Trumpian scale.

Yogi Bara said it best "nobody goes there any more--it's too crowded"
ound like
 

ballmouse

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The people are concerned with making money for themselves, and probably not thinking about what happens to everyone else. And even if you avoid that, all it takes is one person to step over the picket fence before everything crumbles.

RE: oil cartels, big corporations taking over neighborhoods (gentrified areas in New York, Savile Row, etc.)
 

comrade

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Have been it Venice several times, first in 1961.
Even then in the Summer it was very crowded.
Most recently, in September 2014, I first saw
the visual impact of the towering cruise ships,
which at times obscured the view of San Giorgio
Maggiore, and Santa Maria della Salute, two of
my favorite Baroque churches. I was there at the
same time as George Clooney's wedding, which
may have accounted for the many mega yachts
tied up along the Grand Canal. Nevertheless,
it is magical. My next visit will be in winter.
 

ilsartodoro

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Another problem in Venice of locals forced to leave is that restauration process need professionals, and with all who know traditional jobs (which know their stuff properly for generations), leaving those things go also along with historically acurate traditions.
 
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ilsartodoro

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The people are concerned with making money for themselves, and probably not thinking about what happens to everyone else. And even if you avoid that, all it takes is one person to step over the picket fence before everything crumbles.

RE: oil cartels, big corporations taking over neighborhoods (gentrified areas in New York, Savile Row, etc.)


I belive they different story and animals.
Venice relies on locals for much of accuracy of traditional jobs which usually are passed from generation to generations and in order to maintain traditions, which are connected to the history of Venice and thus has a direct impact also on tourism, and much broader aspects in regard historical accuracies for those who study the history in long and short term along with its sinking problems.
If italian goverment finds no solution will have to face a bitter reality latter at own expense for the short term profit now.
 
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