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Non-Rule "Rules"

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

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    Sneakers with a suit is a horrible look that tells the world "I have no comfortable dress shoes". Tom Wolfe nailed this years ago in Bonfire of the Vanities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2012
  2. CesarC

    CesarC Senior member

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    Thank you. Thank you. I suppose I will add a few non-rules I have for myself (which I don't necessarily apply to others, I just know they are terrible for me, and I usually therefore apply the non-rules to others...):

    • No scarves, except with black tie
      I'm just coming out and saying this one, since I know this will probably cause the most irritation. I think I have bad memories from thick winter scarves as a kid, feeling suffocated. I welcome the opportunity to accessorize, but scarves just don't do it for me. Too fussy maybe? Even for practical purposes, I would prefer to go with a high-collar coat if it's wintry cold.
    • No plaid ties, except for bowties
      I don't know what it is, but even if I am attracted to a nice plaid on a tie, I subconsciously start backing away from it. Herringbone-- fine. Houndstooth-- ok in the right combination. I just can't deal with all the busy-ness. For example, even if you have a tastefully loud plaid jacket, combining with a plaid tie seems overkill. Windowpane suit with plaid tie? Hollow and artificial. The best and most satisfying option I've seen is with a dark or charcoal suit, a discreetly striped shirt, and a toned-down plaid; even then, it feels a little clinical. [shrug] Hmm... I can imagine a 3-piece sport suit in medium gray small-pattern plaid, with a dark blue discreet plaid, but that is so stylized and outside of anything I could pull off (I would look like a dark-skinned colonial who made good).
    • No school-color rep ties (i.e. even stripes), except at school / university
      I think school-color rep ties are appropriate for school-age boys, and as delightfully tacky statements at alumni reunions and such-like, but otherwise I find even-striped rep ties a bit boring and dated. Maybe too safe? As if to say, "I didn't know which tie to get, so I got this one." Sometimes they can be ok if used ironically in a bowtie, but I've grown tired of the obsession with irony (see above). That being said, I like rep ties overall when used properly, so long as the stripes aren't all of even size.

    I'll leave it there for now, since I think these are perhaps some irksome attacks.
     
  3. luftvier

    luftvier Senior member

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    This thread is quickly approaching DT territory.
     
  4. noodles1975

    noodles1975 Member

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    Oh I have thick Skin and I believe I have something to offer to this forum so it will take a bit more than a few unfriendly 'Senior Members' to have me running elsewhere.
     
  5. EFV

    EFV Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Oh, "senior member" means nothing, it takes 100 posts or so to get there. If you stick around for a while you'll probably find out who's posts you gain any new intelligence from. If you're more of a fashion kinda guy there is the SW&D part of the forum you might like to check out as well, it's less conservative, but still quite snarky.
     
  6. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    :lurk:
     
  7. Bounder

    Bounder Senior member

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    +1

    This is really more SW&D territory. From the perspective of classical dress, wearing espadrilles with a suit would be ridiculous, even boorish.

    MC deals with the more tradition and "rules" based aspects of men's clothing, whereas SW&D leans toward the more free-wheeling/fashionable. That's probably where you'd be more comfortable. The "Grenson's for my 'Raw Selvage Denim" comment totally gives you away. ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Lo Zingaro

    Lo Zingaro Active Member

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    Two other rules came to my mind:

    _No flat front pants
    _No single vented jackets
    _No less than four buttons on cuffs
    _No french cuff without cuffliks
    _No undone cuffs
    _No french collar
    _No diplomatic/turn-up/how do you call it collar with smoking jacket
    _No cummerbund
    _No zip in pants, only buttons
    _Cuff on pants always, except when wearing morning coat, smoking jacket. Big cuffs also.
    _Only silk underwear. I am gradually replacing all my cotton underwear with silk ones.
     
  9. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not sure this is true any more, which is why MC is in such a weird place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  10. gdl203

    gdl203 Senior member Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    yep - crocs were posted on MC today
     
  11. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    :uhoh:
     
  12. Geezer

    Geezer Senior member

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    Doc,

    Yes, but I like the weirdness. It keeps it interesting.

    We might even want to think about re-naming this forum. Logically, Men's Clothing should encompass all forms of clothing worn by men. In fact, this is a forum about traditional or tailored or, you know, clothes that aren't SWD or technical sportswear or all the other stuff that it isn't about. It's an odd mirror of AAAC's fashion forum, which definitely isn't about fashion.

    This may in part explain why we get the noobs asking what kind of skateboard shorts are trending this season or which variety of sneakers to wear with a logo tee, or extolling Kanye West. They come here via Google, ask a - for them - perfectly reasonable question, and we tell them to fuck off and only come back once they've had a suit made by Rubinacci in Minnis fresco with horn buttons. Which is also our collective unhelpful answer to the 17-year old in Port Clinton, Ohio wondering what to wear to prom.

    I'm caricaturing of course, but only a little.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
    3 people like this.
  13. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Funny you say that. To me we're becoming like the Trad forum -- where all pretense of being based in a traditional aesthetic is abandoned in favor of a house style that's baffling to the unindoctrinated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  14. Geezer

    Geezer Senior member

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    I agree with you to the extent that I am not persuaded about the SF MC hard-core aesthetic. I don't agree, for example, that Scholte-derived drape is inherently better than more structured cuts (and I own and appreciate both).

    The "Trad" thing seems to me an aberration. For one, "Trad" is recent word (and therefore concept), which I think was invented as much by the analytical obsessions of Japanese bloggers as by anyone else. When I was growing up, it was called "preppy" and was a lot less restrictive than "Trad" appears to be.

    I dislike intently those AAAC threads beginning "is this Trad?". Because they suggest an attempt to create a narrow and restrictive list of binary choices that is unhistorical, while claiming to seek a recreation or continuation of historical practice.

    MC may be informed and influenced by nostalgia, but it is not inherently nostalgic: we may like 1930s Apparel Arts drawings (which are as accurate a guide to what was actually worn as GQ now) but that does not stop us discussing clothes viewed through a contemporary prism, rather than automatically writing off anything not known to have been possessed by Fred Astaire or various deceased British Royals.
     
  15. radicaldog

    radicaldog Senior member

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    My idiosyncratic 'rules':

    - Wear only knit ties or rough-textured wool/shantung ties, unless the occasion strictly requires formality.

    - If wearing a tie, wear only soft-collared shirts (usually BD), unless the occasion strictly requires formality.

    - If wearing wool trousers and odd jacket, then no tie and no leather-soled shoes.

    - If wearing wool trousers with a sweater/cardigan, then no leather-soled shoes.

    - Wear white linen hankies only, and only in formal settings (if at all).

    - No socks whenever possible (footwear, occasion and climate-permitting).

    - Avoid matching ties and socks, unless they both happen to be navy blue.

    - Avoid colour repetition between ties and shirts (unless it's white and the occasion is formal, e.g. white polka dots on blue ground and white shirt).

    I think that's it. :hide:

    Had to reverse-engineer those norms by thinking about how I dress. So this has been a helpful exercise -- thanks, Manton.
     
  16. noodles1975

    noodles1975 Member

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    Ah Yes! I have since realised that. This is the first forum I've joined via recommendation, I wasn't aware that I was posting in the wrong area. I appreciate your direction, thank you.
     
  17. ethanm

    ethanm Senior member

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    Fair warning, wearing espadrilles and driving mocs with worsted suits will get ridiculed in SW&D as well.
     
  18. noodles1975

    noodles1975 Member

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    Well they do say that Europeans are the most stylish people of the world and I myself being a fashion buyer in London, it would be safe to say that I pretty much know what I'm talking about. Since most of the ridiculing has come from US members I doubt that I'll be losing much sleep darling!

    Thanks though! x
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  19. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not trying to discredit you or whatever, but just FYI, being a fashion buyer is probably not going to get you much respect on this forum in general. Many here consider "fashion" the antonym of "style". Again, I'm not trying to ridicule you, and I hope you stick around and contribute to the forum. Just trying to explain the culture here a little bit to you.
     
  20. ethanm

    ethanm Senior member

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    Calling other men darling will also get you ridiculed.
     

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