Non-Rule "Rules"

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    you should give it a try, if its anything like the above, it must be beautiful. :)

    these make me sad. :( green ties and loafers are both awesome.

    sidebar - nice to see you in MC, i havent seen you here almost at all since i joined.

    however, i have no context of imagining you in dress clothes, just smiling on a jet ski. you should post a fit here and there.
     
  2. JPHardy

    JPHardy Senior member

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    IMO, Spoo's post lead more people down the path of bad taste, and waste than Foo ever will. This is not Spoo's fault or something he intends. He burns through clothing and shoes at a rapid rate. It is a combination of a want and need he has for these items and partially his growth as he learns more about how he wants to look. Unfortunately a think a lot of his followers have just taken into buying the labels and not on working on the basics. Even

    While Foo's OneShoe philosophy was controversial it has lead me to a series of "ONE" items.

    First I started with the OneShoe. I have a last in a couple of makers that I am vey comfortable with and it helps detract me from buying sale items that I don't need in hopes that they will fit. So to the shoe fanatics I lead a very boring shoe life
    I have sold/selling 95% of my ties. I realized they did not fit properly. I went to Hober, found my length, and width. The OneTie for me.The same will go with other items, as I become more comfortable with the fit and sizing. To the Tom Ford ties are on sale bunch, again I am very boring.

    Even his latest DB jacket from R. I do not like it, but instead of jumping on the "I hate it, you look like an idiot" bandwagon I looked at what can I get out of it. That jacket started making me question gorge placement for future a future DB.

    Foo may be full of contradictions, when he says the doesn't care about dressing and clothing and then writing obsessively about them, but if you read between the lines there is a to to take away.

    Anyway, as stated earlier, just my opinion.
     
  3. Gruto

    Gruto Senior member

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    It sounds reasonably.

    If we are willing to go further back in time, The Record of Fashion, another old English tailoring journal, has a more positive view on blue (navy) trousers. Things were different then, of course. Frock coats and cutaways were still around. However, 14th of June 1882 The Record Fashion reflects on "Current Styles" stating:

    "Gentlemen of the higher classes wear trousers of the straight form [...] Blue trouserings are in favor, and very stylish they are."
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  4. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    almost ever, it is painful to read. just my opinion.

    manton's comments to it are almost ever entertaining. he is used to write. this is a big difference
     
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I am comfortable with quite a lot. I just choose much more deliberately.


    It seems we fundamentally disagree on what it means to dress well. I would not mistake my approach and attitude toward clothing as a disinterest in dressing or being stylish. In fact, I think constantly attempting to aesthetically re-invent oneself is inherently destructive to style. The inability to commit is an inability to take real risk (and reap real reward), and demonstrates a lack of fundamental taste for what is good over what is bad. I am not always right, but I endeavor to be.

    Some of the best dressers I know of would make you quite sad.


    Manton is a great dresser, but he and I dress very differently and I would not have it any other way. If you think I simply "dress" to a lesser degree than him, I think you've got things wrong. Like me, Manton has very strong preferences and recurrent practices. He will be the first to tell you that he dresses very similarly day to day, year to year. I don't know how you can have missed that after seeing so many of his outfits.

    Also, it is ironic, because I find the notion of CBD over-restricting and too formalistic. It's a way of getting many less astute dressers to fall into an acceptable range, but it will never be more than that. Manton himself excels because he is more than simply CBD.


    I care a great deal on a macro level, but try to minimize effort on a micro level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  6. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    To try and steer this back to the original point of this thread, clearly Foo has got a lot of "rules" for his personal dress, having converged to a quite proscribed range of fits, while Spoo has very few rules, and is more willing to experiment. Some of this is due to differences in personality, perhaps some due to differences in tenure on SF, perhaps some due to differences in amount of time spent thinking about and wearing tailored clothing. And perhaps some due to differences in personal appearance. Spoo seems like the type that will look at least pretty good in just about anything.

    But I think these polar opposites exhibit some of the advantages and dis-advantages of having these personal non-rule "rules". However in :foo:'s case, and the case of many others who have posted ITT, I think it's important to note that these are personal rules that he has cultivated over time through careful thought and observation, and which accord to his own tastes. They are not rules that he has been given by the internet and accepted as restraints on his own personal aesthetic. This is important.
     
  7. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    I don't think one philosophy is inherently better than another here. There will be Prince Michael of Kents and Dukes of Windsor, Mondrians and Picassos, Willie Nelsons and Bob Dylans.
     
  8. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    People are mistaking foo's long-ago comment that he wants to be able to get dressed without thinking about it as a statement that he doens't care. No. It's precisely that he does care, he wants a wardrobe where he can effortlessly put stuff together and it will look good.

    His advice about "outfits", while not original (ahem), is important here. If you have a bunch of stuff that only goes with this or that and always has to be worn together, then you are spending your money unwisely and dressing poorly. You should be able to reach into your closet and with only a few seconds' thought be able to put together an ensemble that works, grabbing almost anything. Any one piece should be easily swappable for something else, and the whole will still work. If you can't do that, your wardrobe needs considerable work.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  9. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    is it not fine to have plenty of things that coherently match one or two other things? when you grab a certain SC you know, i wear this with these pants, or this suit goes with one of these 3 ties...

    as long is one is dressed coherently, and has enough variety in their wardrobe that they arent wearing literally the same few things every week, what is the issue?
     
  10. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    White dress shirts or french cuffs with sportcoats

    The use of silk polka dot squares

    The use of solid silk squares in anything other than white

    Suits with more than two secondary colors
     
  11. HORNS

    HORNS Senior member

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    I strongly dislike button-down collars.

    Is this type of collar an American phenomenon? I don't remember seeing the Europeans follow that rule.
     
  12. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I feel that a white square should be linen and never silk.
     
  13. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    The issue is, everything is matchy. This is not garanimals hour. We are adults. That kind of matchiness will look cheesy to those with a trained eye. Do you think Astaire and Grant dressed like that? They didn't.


    The English don't but the Italians, especially in the South, do tend to wear BDs with jackets, and even with suits.
     
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, exactly. I feel so understood. I could cry.


    The issue is that failing to conceptualize a wardrobe, as opposed to individual outfits, tends to correlate with one's inability to conceptualize the way things go together in the first place--both from a purely aesthetic point of view, and from a more formalistic, contextual perspective. It means the person doesn't really have a coherent way of thinking about dress, and decides everything off-the-cuff (often fooling himself into believing he's been inventive or creative). Is it impossible for such a person to come up with a good looking outfit? No. But it is far less likely that he will.


    Did you just assassinate the cream silk square? I can't believe you'd ever wear white silk. It shouldn't exist.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  15. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Cream is about the only other variant that would be acceptable to me. But no one makes cream squares anymore except Charvet...
     

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