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Non-Rule "Rules"

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Even if true, so what?

    I don't see how dressing for women means thinking like them about how to dress.
     
  2. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    I know we've had discussions about this before, but I have never been quite able to savvy what's wrong about navy trousers.

    I rather like an open-necked shirt with a casual, summer suit. I would be flattered to be mistaken for a mobster as long as it was a don and not a "soldier." I guess I would also be flattered to be taken for a pick up artist, especially at my age!
     
  3. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    -People with sloping shoulders should not wear soft shoulder jackets
    -Only double vents. Never single
    -Never wear derbies with suits
    -Never wear button downs with suits
    -Never buy knit ties with square ends
    -Ties 3.25 to 3.5 inches wide only (40R person)
    -Socks always match shoes or pants
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Casual summer suit with unbuttoned shirt is fine by me, though I'd strongly prefer that shirt to have a button-down collar.
     
  5. TM79

    TM79 Senior member

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    Yeah, that's what I was getting at with my posts although I didn't word it well enough. I don't want to write down 4 items to buy and have an "outfit".

    I just want a navy blazer (have one now) and a few other sport coats that will be interchangeable with different trouser, shirt, and tie combos. I just want to make sure I don't make any drastic mistakes when I start doing this.

    From reading these posts, I definitely need to purchase a few more greys for my pants. I recently switched to MTM for shirts and ordered a batch of 6 that are pretty much wardrobe staples. I plan on doing the same for a fall/winter wardrobe very soon. All the shirts are barrel cuff and semi-spread collar. I don't like cuff links so I stayed away from french cuff shirts.

    I should be all set for shoes, I think. I have a pair of black cap toe as well as a pair of AE Strands in walnut plus a pair of Alden shoes in a more traditional and darker shade of brown and I own a pair of oxblood (cognac?) AE Park Avenue shoes as well.
     
  6. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    im not sure what pants im going to use yet, as i havent received the jacket yet, but i have a bunch off gray office pants in all different colors and textures. i think at least one of them should work.


    interesting. not enough to deter me though. certainly not in baltimore, where i work. but is good to know in case i find myself in a different setting, i may avoid it there.



    considering my present stature, that works out quite well actually.
     
  7. Omar1223

    Omar1223 Senior member

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    foo can you please give some examples of rough, textured cloth suitable for an odd jacket? the only thing i can think of is donegal tweed

    thanks in advance
     
  8. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    But of course! That almost goes without saying.
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    I do the same.


    I can't do it. I've tried and feel uncomfortable. Now, a bright (e.g. orange) sweater, I don't mind so much.


    I had a remarkably similar jacket about 20 years ago - same color and pattern (but Burberry). Never, ever wore it. Part of it was likely my youth, but even now I doubt I would pull it off the hanger.


    Very interesting.

    ....

    I read this thread and realize I probably break more rules than I should. That said, if my wife likes how I'm dressed on a given day, I should probably go back to the closet and change something. Unless we're meeting her friends.

    I have green ties: I never, ever reach for them. Probably after-shocks of parochial education. I have only recently allowed myself to wear a khaki odd jacket. (baby steps)
    Loafers are not happening for me, at all, ever. I require laces.
    Silk knots only with french cuffs (except black tie).
     
  10. Bounder

    Bounder Senior member

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    Now that almost everyone's here -- I expect Vox will be along shortly -- perhaps we should see about making this threak epic.

    I have gone after Spoo on occasion myself. But he has improved quite a bit since he first started posting. So I think there is hope for him. Since I started on this forum, though, you haven't even changed your shoes.

    Spoo may have an entirely too-wide comfort zone but yours is entirely too narrow, especially for anyone to ever consider emulating. In a way, you are one of the worst dressers here because you don't actually dress at all. You have said yourself that your goal is to reduce your wardrobe to a uniform so you can wear the same thing all the time. I find that utterly sad and a great waste.

    It is a pity because it doesn't have to be that way. You have an outstanding eye for fit and a great deal of general sartorial knowledge. If you could break out a bit, you could rival Manton in his ability to produce outstanding CBD that is both elegant and memorable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
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  11. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    you should give it a try, if its anything like the above, it must be beautiful. :)

    these make me sad. :( green ties and loafers are both awesome.

    sidebar - nice to see you in MC, i havent seen you here almost at all since i joined.

    however, i have no context of imagining you in dress clothes, just smiling on a jet ski. you should post a fit here and there.
     
  12. JPHardy

    JPHardy Senior member

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    IMO, Spoo's post lead more people down the path of bad taste, and waste than Foo ever will. This is not Spoo's fault or something he intends. He burns through clothing and shoes at a rapid rate. It is a combination of a want and need he has for these items and partially his growth as he learns more about how he wants to look. Unfortunately a think a lot of his followers have just taken into buying the labels and not on working on the basics. Even

    While Foo's OneShoe philosophy was controversial it has lead me to a series of "ONE" items.

    First I started with the OneShoe. I have a last in a couple of makers that I am vey comfortable with and it helps detract me from buying sale items that I don't need in hopes that they will fit. So to the shoe fanatics I lead a very boring shoe life
    I have sold/selling 95% of my ties. I realized they did not fit properly. I went to Hober, found my length, and width. The OneTie for me.The same will go with other items, as I become more comfortable with the fit and sizing. To the Tom Ford ties are on sale bunch, again I am very boring.

    Even his latest DB jacket from R. I do not like it, but instead of jumping on the "I hate it, you look like an idiot" bandwagon I looked at what can I get out of it. That jacket started making me question gorge placement for future a future DB.

    Foo may be full of contradictions, when he says the doesn't care about dressing and clothing and then writing obsessively about them, but if you read between the lines there is a to to take away.

    Anyway, as stated earlier, just my opinion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Gruto

    Gruto Senior member

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    It sounds reasonably.

    If we are willing to go further back in time, The Record of Fashion, another old English tailoring journal, has a more positive view on blue (navy) trousers. Things were different then, of course. Frock coats and cutaways were still around. However, 14th of June 1882 The Record Fashion reflects on "Current Styles" stating:

    "Gentlemen of the higher classes wear trousers of the straight form [...] Blue trouserings are in favor, and very stylish they are."
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  14. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    almost ever, it is painful to read. just my opinion.

    manton's comments to it are almost ever entertaining. he is used to write. this is a big difference
     
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I am comfortable with quite a lot. I just choose much more deliberately.


    It seems we fundamentally disagree on what it means to dress well. I would not mistake my approach and attitude toward clothing as a disinterest in dressing or being stylish. In fact, I think constantly attempting to aesthetically re-invent oneself is inherently destructive to style. The inability to commit is an inability to take real risk (and reap real reward), and demonstrates a lack of fundamental taste for what is good over what is bad. I am not always right, but I endeavor to be.

    Some of the best dressers I know of would make you quite sad.


    Manton is a great dresser, but he and I dress very differently and I would not have it any other way. If you think I simply "dress" to a lesser degree than him, I think you've got things wrong. Like me, Manton has very strong preferences and recurrent practices. He will be the first to tell you that he dresses very similarly day to day, year to year. I don't know how you can have missed that after seeing so many of his outfits.

    Also, it is ironic, because I find the notion of CBD over-restricting and too formalistic. It's a way of getting many less astute dressers to fall into an acceptable range, but it will never be more than that. Manton himself excels because he is more than simply CBD.


    I care a great deal on a macro level, but try to minimize effort on a micro level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
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  16. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    To try and steer this back to the original point of this thread, clearly Foo has got a lot of "rules" for his personal dress, having converged to a quite proscribed range of fits, while Spoo has very few rules, and is more willing to experiment. Some of this is due to differences in personality, perhaps some due to differences in tenure on SF, perhaps some due to differences in amount of time spent thinking about and wearing tailored clothing. And perhaps some due to differences in personal appearance. Spoo seems like the type that will look at least pretty good in just about anything.

    But I think these polar opposites exhibit some of the advantages and dis-advantages of having these personal non-rule "rules". However in :foo:'s case, and the case of many others who have posted ITT, I think it's important to note that these are personal rules that he has cultivated over time through careful thought and observation, and which accord to his own tastes. They are not rules that he has been given by the internet and accepted as restraints on his own personal aesthetic. This is important.
     
  17. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I don't think one philosophy is inherently better than another here. There will be Prince Michael of Kents and Dukes of Windsor, Mondrians and Picassos, Willie Nelsons and Bob Dylans.
     
  18. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    People are mistaking foo's long-ago comment that he wants to be able to get dressed without thinking about it as a statement that he doens't care. No. It's precisely that he does care, he wants a wardrobe where he can effortlessly put stuff together and it will look good.

    His advice about "outfits", while not original (ahem), is important here. If you have a bunch of stuff that only goes with this or that and always has to be worn together, then you are spending your money unwisely and dressing poorly. You should be able to reach into your closet and with only a few seconds' thought be able to put together an ensemble that works, grabbing almost anything. Any one piece should be easily swappable for something else, and the whole will still work. If you can't do that, your wardrobe needs considerable work.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
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  19. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    is it not fine to have plenty of things that coherently match one or two other things? when you grab a certain SC you know, i wear this with these pants, or this suit goes with one of these 3 ties...

    as long is one is dressed coherently, and has enough variety in their wardrobe that they arent wearing literally the same few things every week, what is the issue?
     
  20. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    White dress shirts or french cuffs with sportcoats

    The use of silk polka dot squares

    The use of solid silk squares in anything other than white

    Suits with more than two secondary colors
     

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