Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by LA Guy, Jul 5, 2012.
: ) But how do posts score points? You award them?
OK, here you go. In before Fok says "MC = 2, SWD = 3" http://www.styleforum.net/t/64932/fs-attolini-pink-cashmere-unlined-tie
Conne threads are funny, but really, only funny for people who have been reading this forum forever. There's really nothing more to be said about Pink Attolini ties, though I'm sure you guys will make hay of this for at least 5 more years.
I've giving you until this afternoon to think of something more... apropos. Actually, if Spoo can get, say, 100 (non stupid) posts on his affiliate thread in the next few hours, that I could even highlight that, sort of to boost Spoo, sort of to say "If you do good things for the community, the community will be good to you."
this was not compelling to me
that was truly awesome. a lot to learn from there.
If it gets to 99 good posts in a row, I'm going to jump in with 'c-c-c-c-coombbbboo breaker."
You guys had a chance, but...
Ivwri, nominated by pickpackpockpuck. This is probably one of the most informative threads on the forum, ever, about a real genius, and the tone of the thread is really terrific.
SWD 4 ; MC 1
This is like a father vs. son basketball game, and you guys are getting sonned. Not good. Let's see some entries. Derek, I'm sure that you can think of something. Manton? Matt?
Honestly, I don't think that anyone in MC cares like the SW&D folks because SF is their site, by and large.
OK, if we're going to go back over the past year, then I'll nominate this post from the above poster: http://www.styleforum.net/t/287922/...erent-combinations-for-beginners#post_5203605
Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
E.1.c. Examples of Coherent City/Formal/Public Combinations for Beginners
Here is the graphic cheat sheet that I used two posts back:
So what are the elements that anchor an ensemble at the furthest margin of city/formal/public? All the sliders to the right?
Let’s take a look (images clickable for larger size.)
It is always a suit. It can be a two piece suit, single or double breasted, but single breasted is safer. A three piece suit with a single breasted vest (waistcoat if you prefer) without lapels can be a tolerable archaism depending on location and what you do.
The color of the suit is always dark blue, or shades of gray. Not brown, not tan. The pattern is solid, or variants of solids like birds-eyes, nailheads, sharkskin, etc. Acceptable patterns from the casual world include discreet pinstripes, chalk stripes (don't let this throw you, but striped suits come from tennis and ball sports) and fine herringbones. Plaids and box checks, well, any check, are too rusticating for a role here.
The material is always smoothly finished worsted wool (not flannel, silk, cotton etc. which we will discuss later.)
The hip pockets on the jacket have straight flaps. The breast pocket is a welt. Pants can have flat or pleated fronts. The pants can be held up with a belt, suspenders, or waistband adjustors as you prefer. Acceptable forms from the casual spectrum, depending on where you live and what you do, are cuffs on the pants, and center, side vents, and hacking and ticket pockets on the jacket. Patch pockets are too rusticating.
Shirts are white, either barrel or double cuffs, point or semi-spread collars. Acceptable forms from the casual spectrum, depending on where live and what you do, are solid light blue shirts or blue and white stripes.
Neckties are solid grenadines or other textured woven silks, wedding tie patterns in silk, silk prints with discrete repeating non-figurative patterns. Sheen is medium to matte during the day, can be more at night. Diagonally striped ties are okay unless you’re British, for whom special rules still exist about such patterns.
Breast pockets have no squares or hankies. Acceptable from the casual spectrum are fine white linen hankies, puffed in or edges out in a plain fold. A silk print square is okay in principle, but is often undermining in practice.
Shoes are black lace up plain or cap toe oxfords. Acceptable influences from the casual world are discreet broguing on a cap toe or a wingtip, and shoes in a dark oxblood or dark brown. Not suede. Derby versions outside of the Anglo-American sphere are fine.
Socks are not fun.
Now, do not misinterpret this list. Deviations from it that remain for all practical extents equivalently formal and good looking are many. The exact elements might differ slightly here and there depending on where one lives. Climates with seasonality, or ones of extremes, might suggest options not presented above.
If your goal as a beginner is to look great, well, here is a way that you can do it reliably every time in a way that works all across the world and in nearly every social circle that expects coat and tie. In fact, every man should be able to assemble this look even if he needs to call on it rarely.
So, why is it happening so infrequently? It could be that when a look is made so plain, the wearer feels that a lack of quality in make or fit is more keenly revealed. "I'll fool the eye," the thinking might go, "with this crazy sock, or this pizza grenade pocket square, or maybe...just maybe...a color common in the women's department."
This might be true, but I do not conclude it is the most common issue. I think that what I see is that a lot of guys probably know, even today, how this type of look gets put together. They've seen it in movies, on TV, and some even still read.
These guys (maybe you!) then develop doubts: maybe it is too formal, too public, too city.
And you know what? It just might be...for you. Think about this.
The most common reaction seems to be to rusticate this formality by taking the city look and staging a country invasion. After all, don't those snappy dressers do this often?
Well, some do, some don't.
The case that I will make in the next set of examples is that it is better for beginners to do this holisticallly across the board rather than piecemeal. Do not put a moustache on the Mona Lisa of the city look if the city look is not right for your life. Save it for that event or occasion for which is it right for your personal circumstances.
Don't worry: we have not given up on the suit. In the next post, we will look at examples where the sliders all move back toward the casual/private/country.
Click here, please, to go to the discussion thread for any comments or questions.
Edited by F. Corbera - 2/26/12 at 4:26pm/SPOILER]
I'll add that this post really works best as part of its thread.
I don't know if I agree with that.
The problem is that SWD actually puts in effort to discuss things. Granted, there's a lot of useless chatter about shopping and item-specific questions, but so much of MC is either snark and inside jokes (which, don't get me wrong, I love), or people asking what they should wear to an interview. SWD, on the other hand, tries to talk about concepts behind designer collections or discusses issues such as whether online shopping is killing retail B&Ms. Whether one finds that interesting or not, it's better than many of the new threads on MC.
Anyway, there are still a ton of great threads on MC, but many of them are old. Not because MC had golden years, but because truly good threads here come once in a blue moon. Manton had some good ones about his trip to Naples and the EG factory. Vox had one about what you would do if you had to start over and coherent combinations. Etutee had one on pants; jcusey has a few on shoes; JefferyD has one shoulder expressions; Foo has Foofed. So on and so forth. Those are all fantastic threads, but they're not going to come along every week.
Feature snark on the front page and MC will cream SWD. I'm still waiting for my Mr. Sam thread nomination to win. I expect Fok is holding out for "thread of the year" award.
I nominate this for post of the day.
I laughed, audibly.
Should we start planning this now?
Also, MC style changes less rapidly than SWD style, or at least that's the stereotype, but I wouldn't really know as I don't go over there at all. But given that older threads on MC are generally more relevant, there's less reason to create new ones and more reason to just say, "this thought has already been expressed and debated ad nauseum, go find this thread." Also there's less discussion of the "look" of certain designers, as, again this is my understanding via stereotype, not direct knowledge, there's less interest in specific designers and what their intentions are with a given collection. Basically there's just less new stuff getting churned out, which therefore means less new discussion is generated.
1. Many basic topics relevant to MC were covered in great depth years ago on other sites, leaving the subset of those guys who are active in some form on SF—and who can discuss these topics with intelligence and direct knowledge—uninterested in recapitulation. So, the "old" content on SF is shallower than one might presume since the center of gravity for such topics was never here. In contrast, those other sites purposefully excluded the topics that interest those on SF who are active in SW&D.
This is why SF's DNA is more about casual clothes despite the significant traffic that might come through here seeking answers to questions about coat and tie. Streetwear is SF's knowledge repository, thus, it does not surprise me that this "feature the best post" effort is skewed that way.
2. There is very little snark on MC today. There is a fair bit of shallow and juvenile rudeness. The cleverness of insider jokes has declined with the decline of the cleverness of insiders.
3. The number of members who are, or are trying, to make money by selling to other members is a more pervasive element than before, and the whole site has a more commercial feel. This casts a subtle pall over things. It is hard to say if this is better or worse than the ham-handed brute commercialism of Ask Andy, or the even the London Lounge, but it's pretty much killed the "we're all in this together" tone of the past.
4. There are better, technologically more advanced, outlets now for some of the most fun things relating to clothes. Blogging and tumblr, for example, although that is not everyone's bag.
No reason to weep. Such changes are merely the way things are.
Separate names with a comma.