No Pad Stitch Marks Behind Lapel = Not Full Canvas?

[LLL]

I was at a Harry Rosen store the other day looking at an OTR JP Tilford suit (plain navy) and I noticed that there weren't any readily identifiable pad stitch marks behind the lapel. Despite what has been confirmed numerous times by SF, salesmen, and blogs, that the Tilford suits made by Samuelsohn at HR are fully canvassed, I also heard from the salesman that the Tilfords don't have a canvas that extend all the way through to the bottom of the jacket and the rest of his description sounded like he was describing a half-canvas jacket. Are Tilford by Samuelsohn fully canvassed? Where might the pad stitch marks be? They are usually pretty obvious on Zegna and Canali, so where might they be on the OTR Tilfords? Thanks in advance!

 

[Maccimus]

Originally Posted by LLL

I also heard from the salesman that the Tilfords don't have a canvas that extend all the way through to the bottom of the jacket and the rest of his description sounded like he was describing a half-canvas jacket.
You are right if he was telling the truth.

 

[literasyme]

It depends on the material and other factors, such as the machines and thread used -- I have plenty of fully canvassed coats on which no stitch marks are apparent.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

It needs pad-stitching to be full-canvas, but it may be possible that the stitches are just too small to be seen. Even with half-canvas there should still be pad-stitching in the lapel:

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by literasyme

I have plenty of fully canvassed coats on which no stitch marks are apparent.

Pad stitching with a properly set-up blind stitch machine is virtually invisible on the other side (which would be the underside of the lapel).

Pad stitching applied by hand (particular on the new extra-light fabrics) can always be seen - sometimes by more than just dimples.

 

[literasyme]

Right -- but how many RTW makers, other than Oxxford, do pad stitching by hand?

 

[LLL]

Thanks for the great information, esp the diagram and the distinction between machine and hand applied pad stitching.

So the Tilfords/Samuelsohns are... full canvas or no?

Also, the Zegnas and Canalis have their canvas interlining hand sewn into the jacket?

 

[Cant kill da Rooster]

Originally Posted by LLL

Thanks for the great information, esp the diagram and the distinction between machine and hand applied pad stitching.

So the Tilfords/Samuelsohns are... full canvas or no?

Also, the Zegnas and Canalis have their canvas interlining hand sewn into the jacket?
I was recently talking to an HR SA as well who said they were 3/4 canvassed. So I am not sure. I have done the pinch test and still think they are decent value for the price. I would also assume that if you tried their MTM line, you would get full canvassing.

 

[literasyme]

Originally Posted by LLL

So the Tilfords/Samuelsohns are... full canvas or no?

Also, the Zegnas and Canalis have their canvas interlining hand sewn into the jacket?

Don't know about the Tilfords. AFAIK, Samuelsohn more often than not does fully canvassed coats.

Neither Zegna nor Canali do their pad stitching by hand (maybe Zegna on their highest level, but I very much doubt it). That you can see the stitches on some of them has more to do with the material than with the technique.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by literasyme

Right -- but how many RTW makers, other than Oxxford, do pad stitching by hand?

I was trying to say, it is normal, not to see the pad stitching on fully-canvased RTW garments.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

I was trying to say, it is normal, not to see the pad stitching on fully-canvased RTW garments.

A recent A. Caraceni lapel, courtesy of jefferyd:

Yippeeee!


- B

 

[George]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

A recent A. Caraceni lapel, courtesy of jefferyd:

Yippeeee! - B
Is that machine done?

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by George

Is that machine done?

Yes.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

Yes.
Food for thought there. A top Italian tailor like Caraceni using a machine in an area traditionally done by hand. Who'd have thunk it! Do those priests of bespoke tailoring over on London Lounge know about this!

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by George

Is that machine done?

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

Yes.

Well, for what it's worth, the bit of taping is done by hand.