No effs given... correctly

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cantabrigian, May 24, 2013.

  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Dude, I'm not twisting anything. You explicitly asserted that aesthetics are a matter of opinion.

    Not that it is worth attempting pointed discussion here anymore, but your analysis above totally evades the point I was making. Disagreements between even enlightened individuals occur, yes. However, that does not prove a multitude of valid opinions.
     


  2. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    I feel like I've read this whole discussion multiple times already, in various threads. It might be impossible to truly reconcile the two opposing opinions.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013


  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I agree, it cannot be reconciled.

    I just think it's odd to care so much about improving one's dress and style, yet believe it is fundamentally a matter of mere opinion. What is the metric for improvement, then? Popular approval? Sounds bleak.

    Personally, I aim for an objective good. Whether I hit the target is another matter, but I never judge my attempts on the basis of consensus.
     


  4. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    well, maybe we are just misunderstanding each other.

    i did not explicitly state that "aesthetics are a matter of opinion," and i do not believe that "there are a multitude of valid opinions." and was not trying to evade anything.

    you seemed to me to make a blanket statement when you said, "I believe in aesthetic objectivity. Things look good, or they don't. It's not really a matter of opinion." it was only to that statement that i was saying, there will never be complete objectivity. there will always be disagreements, even between enlightened individuals, on certain things looking good or not good. and therefor, sometimes, things are a matter of opinion. not that everything is subjectively a matter of opinion, but sometimes, things are. that is all i meant.

    and within that, i think there allows for plenty of opportunity to improve within set metrics and rules.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013


  5. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    There most likely is an objective aesthetic when it comes to dressing oneself, but it does change over time. So maybe only short-term objectivity exists?
     


  6. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    as well, i think my curtness hurt things here. i should have been more clear and exclusive in my original reply to your post. after re-reading it, i can see why it would come off as me meaning what you thought i did, even though i did not. sorry about that. being lazy about making a point is never to anyones advantage.
     


  7. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    All I'm going to say on the matter that despite his ridiculousness, Craig Sager is the best sideline reporter in the NBA. The only person who comes close is Cheryl Miller.
     


  8. Numbernine

    Numbernine Senior member

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    People who study such things have struggled for millenia with the question of what constitutes beauty but one thing they were forced to agree upon is the fact that there is subjective beauty and there is is objective beauty otherwise a dialogue is impossible . As regards matters of human communication any aesthetic principal is of necessity is composed of attributes that are both objective and subjective
     


  9. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

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    I'll just throw in my perspective on the matter. I know there are rules out there, and I like to think I know more of them than the average bear. I follow them more or less, but I take an analogy from my military days when dressing. When you are running combat operations it is always nice to have 360 degree security. That is, someone watching your @ss in every direction a threat might come from. It's nice, but rarely ever possible. You have to choose something to give up, in terms of security, to get something in terms of what you want to accomplish. So, to me, it's just a matter of what I'm willing to give up, when it comes to the rules, in order to achieve the look I'm going for. Give up too much and the whole thing falls apart. Give up too little and you never get anywhere.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013


  10. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The trouble with trying to learn the traditional rules here is that the forum keeps inventing them. So hard to keep up.
     


  11. Tirailleur1

    Tirailleur1 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Oh man we just managed to ruin a good thread...
    Is there anyway we can stay on topic and not turn this thread into another "ignorant sf plebs don't follow our rules so they dress like shit"
     


  12. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Not enough threads are that way.
     


  13. Tirailleur1

    Tirailleur1 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Well let us not turm this into one.
     


  14. Numbernine

    Numbernine Senior member

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    When i consider rules of dress I think in terms of things that are in no way dictated by SF . There may be modes of dress that are favored by an internet forum but they certainly exist beyond that. The idea that the balanced relationship of shoulder ,lapel and tie width
    for instance is some sort of SF rule is laughable . There exist certain objective basic ways one may insure a higher sucess rate at combining colors , patterns and fits in a pleasing manner .These ways are not restrictive but rather they liberate one from the process of trial and error and free up that energy so it can be used in a more creative manner .In other words what is often refered to as rules to be adhered to I see as tools to be used in streamlining the creative process
     


  15. Tirailleur1

    Tirailleur1 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sort of like guidelines?
     


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