Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Fuuma, Nov 14, 2010.
^Yes, I am also 6'2" and the 50 is just right on me.
Glad you got one, shoreman!
Well, ARN makes stuff for Nigel, so I am guessing they didn't have to steal it.
Coggles has a bunch of SS12 Cabourn at half off. Don't ask them to refund, VAT, though. I missed out on the linen Mallory in my size because I snoozed too long.
ARN designed and Built a few seasons worth of pants for him, nothing else.
I understand your confusion, but ARN and Cabourn do not work together anymore and it was never more than a pant co-lab, it says so on the site (both sites). been over for 18 months or so.
I like Cabourn stuff, little over priced for the fits and cloths, but his parka is a classic and the Mallory has been a stape in the collection since it statrted, both great history pieces, I've just returned form Japan where I went to the Army Gym stores, sadly it has been a bit of a shock.
most of the Cabourn in the store was marked 'made in China' even the UK imports and the sales guy who was amazing if not a bit to honset, explained that if clothes are produced in more than one country they have to put the main producer on the labels. his english was very good, but I'm not to sure on this point.
when we went to the store in store at isatan the sales guy was wearing a ARN piece, that was four years old, a summer tweed that matched this jacket, stitch for stitch. he was less than impressed with the copy.
not knocking anyone, just saying, I was intrested so I check out a few other bits as well, the Rag n bone collection 8 years ago was also based on the Everest/mallory......looks just like the main line cabourn, but predates it by 18 months.
I have to say it was an eye opener. I have a few cabourn pieces will keep wearing them but will check outmy info before I buy from him again.
My last post was just a knee jerk reaction and i'm sorry if it was rude. I love clothes and am lucky enough to be able to buy what I want, but i feel Cabourn is a little over for me, bit to blow up and the prices just have shot up in the last two years, best thing i ever got from him was a jumper £135, three years ago, white with a red band, saw the same one for £400 few week back...bit shocked
try manufactum for better prices on his stuff or any german web store, no idea why bu there is a lot of it on sale there right now. good pieces too
Whenever a label like Cabourn is basing their designs off of historic garments (or at least using design elements from them), there are bound to be other similar versions out there. What is so unique about the Surgeon Jacket that would preclude it from being made many times throughout history? How is it surprising that, if Rag and Bone and Cabourn based designs off of garments from Hillary's and Mallory's expeditions, that they would not look similar? A salesman in the Nigel Cabourn shop in Isetan, who was wearing an ARN jacket was disappointed by the Cabourn 'copy'? Sounds like a lousy salesman to me. I guess I just roll my eyes when I hear of conspiracy theories like this.
I was not confused about ARN Mercantile. I know that they have produced trousers for Cabourn. My point was that, if Nigel Cabourn has a working relationship with Neil Christopher from ARN Mercantile, would the rational conclusion be that it was a theft of designs?
Personally, I think Cabourn knits have improved over the past few years. Many, if not all, were made from itchy Scottish wool. Now, several are merino or lambswool. It's an improvement in my book. Some of the 'pure new wool' knits are still priced around $250. Prices can vary widely depending on where Cabourn is sold (often due to import duties and shipping costs).
As for Cabourn blowing up and prices increasing, yeah, it's a little sad to see. But, it happens with almost everything good. Inverallan went that way, but seems to slowly be coming back.
I take it you love Nigel Cabourn clothing, that much then.
I have seen enough of this 'copying' to see a rip off, as for you idea that two designers share anything other than what they are being paid for is nice but I feel it's untrue. there must be a reason why these two do not work together. ARN did not just make for nigel they designed and developed in a co-lab, but the pant were never in ARN collection for some reason, there is an interview all about it on Selectism.
the salesman was wearing ARN , but I sure that just means he has a like it more. not that he was a clothing guy who enjoy well made clothes..... but I think you belittle the idea when you call it a 'conspiracy theory' I think more an old man with less ideas than money and a young label with more ideas and less money. it a hard business and yes ideas and fashions come from the same ideas, but normally at the same time.
I understand your idea of improvement, but it was the same jumper in the same wool different color mind....most likely the same factory
as for this jacket the only ones who know are Nigel and Neil.....shame they do not use forums.
so I think we will differ on this point. good luck to you
check out the sales, lots of nigel cabourn at good prices, for you
Does this mean the manufacturing of the Cabourn garments was primarily assembled in China (percentage wise) and finished in the UK? If they were 100% manufactured in the UK I wonder how they would be priced. Either way, stuff looks good.
Thanks for that great info, Robindad!
As far as manufactum, I've noticed their Cabourn pieces (mostly) are made specifically for them with different fit and materials. I tried the Cameraman on in the Cologne store last year while there on vacation and it did not use Harris tweed and fit was slightly off. They also used S, M, L sizing.
I like some of his clothing, yes. But, there is a lot that doesn't interest me. Cabourn is one of a few designers that, in my opinion, consistently produces well made 'historical' garments from interesting materials.
I suppose it's a matter of whether one wants to me pessimistic or optimistic about it. Cabourn and Christopher have both been in the industry for some time, and Nigel Cabourn Authentic is not much older than ARN Mercantile. They both have interesting stories and make great clothing (I have some from each).
You mean this interview, where Neil goes on about how enjoyable it is to work with Nigel? It doesn't sound like Neil himself think Nigel is an old guy with few ideas. Nigel is, to my knowledge, always the sole retailer/wholesaler of the items from his collabs. It's the same with the Eddie Bauer outerwear, Viberg boots, Red Wing boots, etc.
The underlined sentence is precisely what I mean by 'conspiracy theory'. "There has to be something foul afoot!" It often leads to many assumptions and misinformation.
More comments from Neil Christopher:
Nigel approached us at Tranoi 2 years ago, we had a small following in japan and some very nice press from F&E, with another company we work with, Nigel Cabourn is a great outerwear company but there bottoms business was not so good we had a bit of a good reputation for doing pants that fitted and hung well so he suggested a co-lab, been interesting to work with them, very different processes to our normal way of doing things, demanding but fulfilling. We’ve done a bit more than just the pants, this is the fourth season (ss11).
I get on well with Nigel, I like to hear his war stories and he likes to tell them. I have no idea what the future hold for this work, I know we were getting busier and busier with other co-labs and being just the two of us time is always the issue, but I enjoy, in the most part, working with them and this is the key for us to move forward, in fact the SS11 pants I think were the best yet, although the 4 pleat we did at the start is very nice..
hey....relax a bit Mr.
Cabourn makes good history based clothing, all a little over priced. that we all agree.
the interview was the big one, not the trousers one, I'll find it and post it up. Mr Cabourn has been in the clothing business for over 40 years, a great history and with a few wonderful bits, he is the old man of english clothing and good luck to him, I've not said anything to take that away from him. but I do say a lot of what he does is not that orginal, the Japanese colection is not all that and is a collection of copies, i do not know how much of it is designed by Mr Cabourn, but the build is poor and the fabric middling, the 'UK' collection in Japan is marked as made in China. ARN is only 3 years old all UK and eco production, green cloths and system, I think that is worth saying.
there is an interview in F&E with ARN and one on LNCC both are less than glowing about the co-lab, after such nice things said before, which is why I said there must be something that happened and yes I'm guessing, looking into the darkness of it, if you will, but then I like the stories behind what I wear amd was just sharing my own ideas on an open forum, I'm new on here and did not come to make trouble, but i have an point of view, and have stated it.
I have never bought an ARN jacket but do have there breaches a few pairs of chinos and a couple of shirts, all are great, as are the Cabourn garments I own, but after a few trips to Japan and the US I've seen many great brands and a lot of small struggling ones, the bigger one take from the smallier but I feel it's unfair and bad form not to say somethung about it if you see it, I'm sure you agree, the jacket that started this is not that nice but then I'm sure many people like it, maybe they would like to see the other side of where it came from
but I feel now you do not like others points of view, sorry to have been so rude.
not tried any of the manufactum bits, thanks for the heads up on the sizing,
I'm always willing to listen to the points of view and ideas of others. Just because I've called you out on not supporting your claims that Cabourn steals designs from ARN or that there is bad blood between them doesn't mean I can't tolerate other points of view.
Like I've said, it's not going to be 100% original if it's based on historic garments. One of my other favorite labels, Mister Freedom, uses historic designs to create well-made garments often out of deadstock or interesting new materials.
So, what do you like about your Cabourn and ARN pieces? Frankly, I'm amazed at how good ARN is at making full leg trousers that fit so well in the waist and seat. The materials and construction are pretty impressive, indeed.
Now Mr freedom is good, have you been to the store, great place, the vibe is amazing.
I have to agree with you on the fits, the pants are spot on as are the shirt, I now have three of there oxfords dobby blue, a denim and a stripe as well as a POH shirt in hickory all sit well, they do this shirt/t-shirt thing I got from LNCC no collar and 3/4 sleeve, feels nice on. the breaches were a little tight on the cuff but again sits well, I was in present and was lucky enough to meet Drew from Cabourn who was wearing some ARN pants not the co-lab ones, it may have been before they started it, it was a few years ago, he was the one who switched m on to them.
it's a bit hard to find but there website does says a wedstore is on it's way, if you get in touch for there mailing list there is a sample sale and updates to when and where.
As for cabourn, I picked up (in the sales a liberty) a parker for £600, orange one, been my best winter coat for the last 4 years, as well as a couple of Mallory Jackets a nice one in indigo heavy linen great for this time of year, bit too heavy for full summer and a heavy raw tweed again best winter jacket, but I have to say the shoulde are a little tight, you can work them in but still snug, a beautiful roll neck jumper with a red band on it, soften up nice after a few months wear.
sorry, bit to much info, maybe.
I love the fact cabourn is so true to the history of his pieces, but I find that not all are historical, which is fine but it's a bit blurred in the telling sometimes, his coats are amazing, the camerman is my next big purchase from him, is it warm with the waxed cotton shoulder? I walk alot and need to be both dry and warm, it's a hard question to get answered in the stores!
What I like about ARN is the fit, simple really not found anyone who has cut a pant or shirt to sit so well, next from tem is a Jacket maybe the peacoat or a Medi coat, anyone got one to show the wear??
Just adding this in an edit. but I feel ARN is the next step on from Cabourn, they inspired but the history of clothing but bring the shapes forward, the cut and the fits are spot on.
I love my cameraman but I would say that it is probably the opposite of what you're looking for. It is not particularly warm in and of itself - you'd have to layer in a sweater in cold weather - and the mackintosh top traps humidity inside so it is not going to keep you dry inside. I think I noted before that if it is slightly warmer than expected and/or if I walk a lot, the inside of the coat is wet when I take it off. Or did you mean to keep you dry from rain? in that case, that is a definite yes - the mackintosh top is as water repellent as it gets
Separate names with a comma.