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NHL 2011-2012 Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by NewYorkIslander, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. gomestar

    gomestar Senior member

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    Totorella fined another $20,000 for his "comments".


    Jesus, when will the guy learn that regardless of what is true and evident around the players, coaches, and fans, you can't say shit like that in front of the media.
     
  2. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    I don't fucking care. Good for him. I'm sorry, every fucking Canadian hockey fan sees Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the Penguins with tinted fucking glasses. So does the league and it's officials. I went to bed after Malkin scored, so this is the first I'm hearing of it. If I were the coach, I would have threatened Crosby and Malkin right there. There was no need for that kind of a hit at that point, in this kind of a game (Pens up by 3 with 5 minutes remaining). Funny, he didn't say anything about the league, and nothing different than what Berube said. Maybe the Dolans can give Torts a 20k bonus for reaching 100 points this season. Here's the comments: [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
  3. gort

    gort Senior member

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    I fuckin' love how fiery Torts gets with the media. You never have to guess how he's really feeling.
     
  4. jarude

    jarude Senior member

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    i get that its a bit of a silly fine, but really? what does being canadian have to do with anything? not everybody's drank the kool-aid up here; there's an equal number of crosby haters as there are fanboys. if anything, the fine has more to do with calling the organization arrogant and calling out the league rather than calling crosby/malkin whiners. players/coaches call other players gutless diving whiners with impunity, but as soon as you insinuate anything about the league or officiating, thats when the fines drop.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  5. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    I get that there are Canadian fan boys of Sid as well as Canadian haters, but the media is really what I'm talking about. They perpetuate Sid as the next one (and again, he is very skilled, very good, and one of the best players in the world) and he's no where near as great as Gretzky or Lemieux. They portray him (and the American hockey media does as well, well, save Mike Millbury) as an angel who can do no wrong. I also think part of the hate is because of who I support, and if he was on my team, I'd love him, and ignore the downside (ahem, Avery) to his play.

    I don't see him insinuating anyting about the officials. Teams used to "send stuff to the league" or "ask the league to review" tons of plays (Devils/Rangers ECF in '94 with Bernie Nichols xcheck on Kovalev and then Beukeboom hitting Richer-man that was a great series!) without 20k fines being levied.
     
  6. gomestar

    gomestar Senior member

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    (I agree with you, hence the tone in my post)
     
  7. jarude

    jarude Senior member

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    tort's saying "we'll see what happens" or "i wonder what would happen if they did this" and "im anxious to see what the league will do" is a direct dig at the officiating and the league, insinuating there's some sort of "protect crosby and the penguins" mandate put out by the powers that be. any kind of tangential relation to even possibly thinking about questioning the integrity and impartiality of the league gets you fucked, but talk shit about players all you like. ask every coach fined this season. torts x2, once for his winter classic reffing comments, and this situation. renney for saying the nhl wanted the kings in the playoffs. berube got nothing because he was smack talking players, laviolette and granato got it for getting up on the boards.

    i get that crosby has a bad rep for crying to refs, but i feel in all honesty it's his rep thats getting him this. he did bitch and moan a lot in his early years, so he deservedly has a bad rep, but if you watched this season in a bubble he wouldn't be any worse than anyone else who disputes a call. as far as being a dirty player, he doesn't play an entirely clean game, but its certainly no worse than the average and nowhere near the assholery we've seen in the league.

    this whole crosby conspiracy thing is kind of ridiculous; he is getting villified for doing stuff that would get ignored if was done by a regular NHL asshole, say, scott hartnell. is he an angel? no, but he's not an asshole. the fact that he's the most prominent player in the game means every action of his gets blown out of proportion, good or bad.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  8. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    I have always liked Crosby, despite his early shenanigans as a rookie.

    He plays in an era where "the code" no longer exists. He gets his and targeted on a nightly basis and he has learned to defend himself. At times, he plays chippy, but no more than many other high profile players. He isn't Datsyuk but he certainly isn't one of the dirtiest players in the league or whatever it is Torts was ranting about.

    I do think there is a problem with the pot calling the kettle black but it's hockey wide, not just one team. I think all teams and their fans, to an extent, believe that they play the "right way" and they'll spin their actions anyway they can. It's a league where cognitive dissonance reigns, at all levels.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  9. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    I don't think the comments were as Crosby-cetric as you guys think they are. I think a lot has to do with the organization, one who complained bitterly last year about players targeting heads, while having Matt Cooke (who is an entirely different player this year) was ending guys careers as a Penguin and had even deliberately, one of the most deliberate head shots I've seen since the issue came to its height, elbowed McDunaugh in the head towards the end of the season. It also targeted Orpik, the guy who threw the knee on knee but most importantly Malkin who gets away with more shit than any other player in the league because of who he plays with. The organization as a whole, since the days of Lemieux has been this way. Complaining about shit when you have guys like Ulf Samuelsson (who I love btw) going out to hurt guys on the other team. One thing about the Bruins and Flyers, they'll play dirty, but they don't cry nearly as much as the Penguins. As far as insinuating the league protects the Pens more, I think it may have done its job. Take the fine, and now the eyes of every camera will be focused on the behavior of these guys for the playoffs. Crosby himself even said, "Put a camera on me all game," now that'll happen. And whether he was right or wrong, officials will now have the comments made three times this week, by three different organizations (Flyers, Rangers, and Bruins-Millbury is an analyst there), and will keep an eye out for it, which in my mind will more impact Malkin.


    Torts never said he was dirty, just that he whines. He also. long after his whining, continued to go down easier than a Hunts Point hooker. Yes, that has improved, but also plays into why other players and people around the league, don't like him. On top of this, the media does portray him as an angel. As you say, he can play chippy, and does so much more than guys like Sakic, Gretzky, and Yzerman have, and those are the guys he is compared to, so whether its conscious or not, officials give him the benefit of the doubt that those players got, and deserved, while he doesn't, and that "respect" gets transferred to his teammates.
     
  10. Van Veen

    Van Veen Senior member

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    The one thing that can bring Rangers, Devils, and Flyers fans together... hatred of Crosby and the Pens.
     
  11. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    Many of the league's former stars played in a time when the league actively protected it's best players. In Gretzky's case, a player was effectively declared persona non grata for laying a clean, open ice hit on him. Those days are long gone and now the NHL is a league where anyone is fair game. For better or worse (I'd argue worse, based on all the missed games due to concussions) guys like Crosby can't just sit back and take it anymore. I think he whined a lot as a rookie, but now he takes things into his own hands a lot more and people don't like it because he's Crosby. Plenty of other players whine far more than Crosby and are far dirtier, but they just aren't lightning rods for criticism like he is. He's more scrutinized than anyone in the league and I think he carries himself well.

    The NHL is filled with problem players who dive, whine, or actively try to injure other players and these guys are barely mentioned or their transgressions are quickly forgotten. The minute Crosby does anything objectionable, it's front page news.
     
  12. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    Because he's already on it.

    I'm not sure the "don't hit the superstar" rule is as obviously dead as people think. Look at the shit started when Briere got hit (can't wait to watch that game later), or when Carcillo fought Gaborik. Guys stand up for that stuff all the time, in fact, its kind of what got us talking about this all, a hit on a finesse type player (Stepan) that was dirty. If guys step up against the more finesse guys they have to answer from the star's teammates. Lemieux was hit all the time, and I think the only guys who had that kind of protection was Gretzky, and thats because he played with Semenco on a line.

    Who do you guys think are the worst divers in the league? Who would you call the dirtiest players?

    As far as dirty, I would put Malkin in the top 10.
     
  13. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    Gretzky was protected by the league. Semenco was just backup. Bill McCreary Jr. was more ore less declared persona non grata after levelling him at centre ice, and very few players tried it until he retired.

    As far as divers/dirty players, it's the most subjective list ever. If I had to make a list, though:

    Divers: Dustin Brown, Marc Savard (though he's probably going to retire soon), Alex Burrows, Derek Roy, Mike Ribeiro, Eric Staal

    Dirtiest: Brad Marchand, Matt Cooke, Chris Pronger, Pat Kaleta, Steve Downie. Those guys all don't give a shit about player safety.

    I consider Malkin like Perry -- extremely chippy, big and physical but he isn't out there to hurt guys. Ott, Avery, et al. aren't dirty, they're pests.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  14. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    I don't see these guys enough, and am surprised that Dustin Brown is on it. I always saw him as a hard nosed clean player. But again, if I stay up to watch LA tonight, I'll pay attention for it.

    As much as I hate to see a guy's career in jeopardy, when Pronger was shut down for the season, I sighed. I hate having to watch the Rangers play against him because I always know he's trying to hurt guys.
     
  15. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    Total horse shit game misconduct call...after watching that, I don't think I need to watch this game...
     
  16. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    I like D. Brown, but he dives a lot. I don't necessarily dislike some of the guys who dive but I don't like the diving. Guys like Pronger, Marchard, and Cooke (prior to this year) who want to end guy's career I want out of the league. I've never bought into the "You'd take him on your team in a minute!" bullshit homers throw out about guys like that. I wouldn't and players who want to injure guys have no place in the NHL.
     
  17. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    You're a Habs fan right? I don't think they've had a player close to that in a long time. How do you feel about Ulf Samuelsson. I loved him, even before he was a Ranger, and I know he had a rep as a dirty player.
     
  18. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    Habs haven't had a dirty player in awhile which is OK in my book. I wish we would have had a more physical presence, even a borderline player, ver the last five years though. The NHL got much more physical and we got smaller and that's why were in the shape were in now. But I'm happy management has stayed away from guys who go over the edge.

    My opinions on Ulf are divided. He's absolutely reviled in Boston, which I find laughable considering their longstanding penchant for embracing dirty players and dirty plays. At the same time, that guy was like Dale Hunter for me -- talented, useful and incredibly tough to play against but he just went over the line way too often. If the hit on Neely would have been a one-off thing I might not be as tough on him, but he made a habit out of going knee-on-knee.
     
  19. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Senior member

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    I know. I feel it wasn't cause he wanted to hurt guys, but because he played a bit recklessly, even positionally, and when he'd get caught, he'd plop out the knee...
     
  20. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    I don't disagree but he never learned from his mistakes, which is problematic. I do think he has been disproportionally vilified due to the hit on Neely. It was a bad hit, but it's been overblown in Boston and by Neely himself, mostly because many Bruins fans believed that it robbed their team of future Cups that were sure to be won during Neely's tenure. I think that's BS, because nothing in Neely's career showed him to be anything but a choker but it's it is what it is and Ulf has payed for it.
     

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