NHL 2011-2012 Thread

[Lord-Barrington]



O snap.
Player for player it's a good deal. Kaberle is better than Spacek even if he's not terribly motivated. The problem is the cap hit. Basically, if he continues to coast, and can't approach his Toronto production, he is an albatross. As a Canuck fan I compare it to the David Booth trade, but with greater risk for Montreal while giving up less than Gillis did. There is no way to say "bad trade" on it except a couple of years out in hindsight.

I don't disagree with this. I think it's a trade that could just as easily look quite good of quite bad in a few seasons time. I am cautiously optimistic just because I've always liked Kaberle's skillset and I think he will fit in well in Montreal (Toronto and MTL being very similar markets and cities) and believe that his problems with Boston and Carolina stemmed from not really wanting to play with either team (despite the fact that he accepted to go to both teams).

I think if he hits a 45pt stride and doesn't turn the puck over as much as he did with the Bruins, Habs fans will be happy. But that isn't close to guaranteed.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



Crosby again out indefinitely

I think he's either done or he will come back a seriously diminished player. He's in the Marc Savard zone right now where he's dogged by post-concussion syndromes and any significant contact threatens to send him off for an extended period of time.

I wish the best for him because he's an awesome talent but this thing has bad new written all over it.

 

[Tck13]

Claude Giroux out indefinitely with a concussion. WTF

 

[jarude]

Marc Savard 2011-09-19 on injured reserve and is expected to miss the entire season post-concussion syndrome

Daniel Paille 2011-12-13 doubtful for Tuesday's game against Los Angeles mild concussion

Nathan Gerbe 2011-12-13 doubtful for Tuesday's game against Ottawa concussion

Peter Mueller 2011-10-13 on injured reserve concussion

Radek Martinek 2011-10-22 on injured reserve concussion

Marcel Goc 2011-11-17 on injured reserve concussion-like symptoms

Guillaume Latendresse 2011-11-11 expected to be activated from injured reserve for Tuesday's game against Winnipeg concussion

Marek Zidlicky 2011-11-16 on injured reserve concussion

Nino Niederreiter 2011-12-04 out indefinitely concussion

Marc Staal 2011-10-05 on injured reserve concussion

Michael Sauer 2011-12-13 doubtful for Tuesday's game against Dallas concussion

Ian Laperriere 2011-09-18 on injured reserve and will miss the entire season post-concussion syndrome

Chris Pronger 2011-11-20 on injured reserve and is out indefinitely left knee surgery/concussion-like symptoms

Brayden Schenn 2011-12-04 out indefinitely mild concussion

Claude Giroux 2011-12-10 out indefinitely concussion

Kurt Sauer 2011-09-19 on injured reserve and will miss the entire season post-concussion syndrome

Nick Petersen 2011-10-03 on injured reserve concussion

Zbynek Michalek 2011-11-27 out indefinitely concussion

Kris Letang 2011-12-05 on injured reserve broken nose/concussion

Sidney Crosby 2011-12-06 out indefinitely concussion-like symptoms

Robert Bortuzzo 2011-12-13 expected to miss Tuesday's game against Detroit concussion-like symptoms

Andy McDonald 2011-10-14 on injured reserve concussion

Jay Beagle 2011-10-14 on injured reserve concussion

plus about 5 other guys who have "head" injuries and dudes like mike richards who have been concussed but are listed as "upper body." and then there's always "undisclosed." lots of nobodies on here but some of these dudes have been out the whole season.

sucks about giroux, i always thought he was a depth forward nobody until i started paying attention to him and its not suprising people have him listed as top 5 forward in the league. soft hands; ive seen some filthy moves out of the guy.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



Marc Savard 2011-09-19 on injured reserve and is expected to miss the entire season post-concussion syndrome
Daniel Paille 2011-12-13 doubtful for Tuesday's game against Los Angeles mild concussion
Nathan Gerbe 2011-12-13 doubtful for Tuesday's game against Ottawa concussion
Peter Mueller 2011-10-13 on injured reserve concussion
Radek Martinek 2011-10-22 on injured reserve concussion
Marcel Goc 2011-11-17 on injured reserve concussion-like symptoms
Guillaume Latendresse 2011-11-11 expected to be activated from injured reserve for Tuesday's game against Winnipeg concussion
Marek Zidlicky 2011-11-16 on injured reserve concussion
Nino Niederreiter 2011-12-04 out indefinitely concussion
Marc Staal 2011-10-05 on injured reserve concussion
Michael Sauer 2011-12-13 doubtful for Tuesday's game against Dallas concussion
Ian Laperriere 2011-09-18 on injured reserve and will miss the entire season post-concussion syndrome
Chris Pronger 2011-11-20 on injured reserve and is out indefinitely left knee surgery/concussion-like symptoms
Brayden Schenn 2011-12-04 out indefinitely mild concussion
Claude Giroux 2011-12-10 out indefinitely concussion
Kurt Sauer 2011-09-19 on injured reserve and will miss the entire season post-concussion syndrome
Nick Petersen 2011-10-03 on injured reserve concussion
Zbynek Michalek 2011-11-27 out indefinitely concussion
Kris Letang 2011-12-05 on injured reserve broken nose/concussion
Sidney Crosby 2011-12-06 out indefinitely concussion-like symptoms
Robert Bortuzzo 2011-12-13 expected to miss Tuesday's game against Detroit concussion-like symptoms
Andy McDonald 2011-10-14 on injured reserve concussion
Jay Beagle 2011-10-14 on injured reserve concussion
plus about 5 other guys who have "head" injuries and dudes like mike richards who have been concussed but are listed as "upper body." and then there's always "undisclosed." lots of nobodies on here but some of these dudes have been out the whole season.
sucks about giroux, i always thought he was a depth forward nobody until i started paying attention to him and its not suprising people have him listed as top 5 forward in the league. soft hands; ive seen some filthy moves out of the guy.

EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL! THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!!!

Signed,

The NHL

 

[bourbonbasted]

It does beg the question, though: Why is this such an epidemic as of late? It seems these injuries have only sprung up in the past season or two. Mind you I'm not saying these are a reflection of the new NHL "concussion precautions" which I assume would keep guys sidelined for a few extra games. At least that was what it was like for NCAA players. We are talking about season-ending injuries to multiple guys. Far more than I can remember in the past. Did we just have every generation before this play through what should be season ending injuries?

 

[Tck13]



It does beg the question, though: Why is this such an epidemic as of late? It seems these injuries have only sprung up in the past season or two. Mind you I'm not saying these are a reflection of the new NHL "concussion precautions" which I assume would keep guys sidelined for a few extra games. At least that was what it was like for NCAA players. We are talking about season-ending injuries to multiple guys. Far more than I can remember in the past. Did we just have every generation before this play through what should be season ending injuries?

A) Maybe it's always been there and people are just starting to pay attention to it now?

Or; B) I played for about 20 years and I've only, in the past couple of years, started to see the head shots that people are dishing out. We never did that or even thought of that. Maybe I was just unaware of it but my opinion is that hitting people in the head on purpose is a relatively recent thing.

 

[jarude]

look at something like this in '94: that would be 10+ games today, clear intent, elbow resulting in an injury. goon **** like this went down all the time; that was pavel freaking bure - not especially known for being a tough guy. if anything i think the game used to be much worse in terms of thuggery - there's no more mcsorley or bertuzzi antics. you might see the odd flying elbow charge ala bure but nothing to the same degree. if anything, injuries used to be even worse - i honestly think the vast majority of it went unreported to avoid being seen as weak. if you took that bure hit to today's nhl it would be front page **** and there would be legions of people calling for his head.

concussions have always been there, but the tough guy culture covered it up. look at guys like lindros, primeau, etc. and other goon/physical types who kept on taking headshot after headshot after headshot and then coming back and playing the next day. only now are they coming out with stories of depression, family destruction, personal life a mess, etc. contrast that to today; ian lapierre took a puck to the chops, came back for the rest of the series, and hasn't been on the ice since more than a year later. honestly, cruise youtube for 90's nhl hits - as a kid growing up watching rock em sock em, it was awesome ****, and now when i see lindros cross the blueline with his head down yet again its almost painful to watch.

i think the veil is being lifted on this stuff. as cliche as it sounds, i think crosby getting concussed got a lot of fringe cases recognized; "if crosby can sit out with a concussion, so can i" kinda thing. awareness + now discipline towards headshots are gradually changing the culture of the game. i view this point in time as a transitional period: we've recognized the issue and are dealing with it, but the discipline and other incentives aren't quite up to snuff yet.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



look at something like this in '94: that would be 10+ games today, clear intent, elbow resulting in an injury. goon **** like this went down all the time; that was pavel freaking bure - not especially known for being a tough guy. if anything i think the game used to be much worse in terms of thuggery - there's no more mcsorley or bertuzzi antics. you might see the odd flying elbow charge ala bure but nothing to the same degree. if anything, injuries used to be even worse - i honestly think the vast majority of it went unreported to avoid being seen as weak. if you took that bure hit to today's nhl it would be front page **** and there would be legions of people calling for his head.
concussions have always been there, but the tough guy culture covered it up. look at guys like lindros, primeau, etc. and other goon/physical types who kept on taking headshot after headshot after headshot and then coming back and playing the next day. only now are they coming out with stories of depression, family destruction, personal life a mess, etc. contrast that to today; ian lapierre took a puck to the chops, came back for the rest of the series, and hasn't been on the ice since more than a year later. honestly, cruise youtube for 90's nhl hits - as a kid growing up watching rock em sock em, it was awesome ****, and now when i see lindros cross the blueline with his head down yet again its almost painful to watch.
i think the veil is being lifted on this stuff. as cliche as it sounds, i think crosby getting concussed got a lot of fringe cases recognized; "if crosby can sit out with a concussion, so can i" kinda thing. awareness + now discipline towards headshots are gradually changing the culture of the game. i view this point in time as a transitional period: we've recognized the issue and are dealing with it, but the discipline and other incentives aren't quite up to snuff yet.

You can't forget the armor....er, I mean, pads, players these days are wearing either.

Stronger, faster players wearing harder pads = bad results.

 

[jarude]

ugh, cringe-worthy hit on bouchard by bogosian. teeth-first into where the boards and glass meet; bouchard was bleeding pretty bad. he just came back from a concussion too, hope the guy is ok.

 

[bourbonbasted]



look at something like this in '94: that would be 10+ games today, clear intent, elbow resulting in an injury. goon **** like this went down all the time; that was pavel freaking bure - not especially known for being a tough guy. if anything i think the game used to be much worse in terms of thuggery - there's no more mcsorley or bertuzzi antics. you might see the odd flying elbow charge ala bure but nothing to the same degree. if anything, injuries used to be even worse - i honestly think the vast majority of it went unreported to avoid being seen as weak. if you took that bure hit to today's nhl it would be front page **** and there would be legions of people calling for his head.
concussions have always been there, but the tough guy culture covered it up. look at guys like lindros, primeau, etc. and other goon/physical types who kept on taking headshot after headshot after headshot and then coming back and playing the next day. only now are they coming out with stories of depression, family destruction, personal life a mess, etc. contrast that to today; ian lapierre took a puck to the chops, came back for the rest of the series, and hasn't been on the ice since more than a year later. honestly, cruise youtube for 90's nhl hits - as a kid growing up watching rock em sock em, it was awesome ****, and now when i see lindros cross the blueline with his head down yet again its almost painful to watch.
i think the veil is being lifted on this stuff. as cliche as it sounds, i think crosby getting concussed got a lot of fringe cases recognized; "if crosby can sit out with a concussion, so can i" kinda thing. awareness + now discipline towards headshots are gradually changing the culture of the game. i view this point in time as a transitional period: we've recognized the issue and are dealing with it, but the discipline and other incentives aren't quite up to snuff yet.

This is my thinking. It's clear to me the culture of the game is changing. After the rule changes you saw most/all of the goons die off. Some of the most legendary players in the game could never play today, not because of their skill level, but because of their style. This has been said thousands of times since the rule changes, but especially with the latest rounds of injuries like these it's becoming far more clear. The big dumb animal no longer has a place in the game.

To your point it's very sad to hear the stories of these clearly broken men. When you add these horror stories to a league filled with finesse skill players, owners are becoming more and more careful to take care of their investments/franchiser players, IMO. In fact, I think the league/owners are stepping in to fill the role an enforcer might have filled in the past.

The skill players of the past were never susceptible to hits like this because you knew you were getting your **** tossed if you messed with them. When you remove the players that did nothing but watch out for the stars then there is no one to keep things in line on-ice. I think the Miller hit is the perfect example of this and ****, that was a goalie; the safest position in professional sports.

I know a lot of these injuries, including Crosby's latest sideliner were due to incidental or random contact (with their own team, no less), but the trend is still disturbing and the nature of the game today will only make it worse unless drastic measures are taken.

EDIT: Anyone just see Melrose calling for mandatory suspensions on any and all head contact on SportsCenter?

 

[Tck13]



look at something like this in '94: that would be 10+ games today, clear intent, elbow resulting in an injury. goon **** like this went down all the time; that was pavel freaking bure - not especially known for being a tough guy. if anything i think the game used to be much worse in terms of thuggery - there's no more mcsorley or bertuzzi antics. you might see the odd flying elbow charge ala bure but nothing to the same degree. if anything, injuries used to be even worse - i honestly think the vast majority of it went unreported to avoid being seen as weak. if you took that bure hit to today's nhl it would be front page **** and there would be legions of people calling for his head. concussions have always been there, but the tough guy culture covered it up. look at guys like lindros, primeau, etc. and other goon/physical types who kept on taking headshot after headshot after headshot and then coming back and playing the next day. only now are they coming out with stories of depression, family destruction, personal life a mess, etc. contrast that to today; ian lapierre took a puck to the chops, came back for the rest of the series, and hasn't been on the ice since more than a year later. honestly, cruise youtube for 90's nhl hits - as a kid growing up watching rock em sock em, it was awesome ****, and now when i see lindros cross the blueline with his head down yet again its almost painful to watch. i think the veil is being lifted on this stuff. as cliche as it sounds, i think crosby getting concussed got a lot of fringe cases recognized; "if crosby can sit out with a concussion, so can i" kinda thing. awareness + now discipline towards headshots are gradually changing the culture of the game. i view this point in time as a transitional period: we've recognized the issue and are dealing with it, but the discipline and other incentives aren't quite up to snuff yet.

I'm not talking about goonery, The stuff in your video has been around since the dawn of hockey. I'm talking about head hits. Specifically targeting the head like this:

 

[AR_Six]

Giroux is "out indefinitely"? After the game they seemed to think he was okay. Apparently not?

 

[jarude]



I'm not talking about goonery, The stuff in your video has been around since the dawn of hockey. I'm talking about head hits. Specifically targeting the head like this:

did you watch the video to the end? bure laid a blindside flying elbow directly to the head of churla; just about the only suspendable criteria he didn't meet is leaving his feet. cruise youtube for rock em sock em, find the hit highlights and count the headshots. blindside lateral hits have always been there; its just now that people realize that dudes are getting their brains scrambled they aren't awesome hits after all. that being said, post-lockout with less clutch and grab and the game being faster, im sure there's more big hits meaning more headshots, but to imply head hits are a totally new thing is off.

Giroux is "out indefinitely"? After the game they seemed to think he was okay. Apparently not?

its quite lol-worthy to see people badmouth giroux on this - "oh, he didn't even get hit, what a wuss." yeah, how about you get on your hands and knees and take a flying knee to the head from a 200lb guy. looked nasty also, 24/7 starts tonight. **** my life for not having HBO. cannot wait to see torts + laviolette + pronger + avery on camera. i know torts has the biggest rep for being a spaz but i know a guy who's done coaching workshops with laviolette and he claims he's just as volatile.

 

[Tck13]



did you watch the video to the end? bure laid a blindside flying elbow directly to the head of churla; just about the only suspendable criteria he didn't meet is leaving his feet. cruise youtube for rock em sock em, find the hit highlights and count the headshots. blindside lateral hits have always been there; its just now that people realize that dudes are getting their brains scrambled they aren't awesome hits after all.


that being said, post-lockout with less clutch and grab and the game being faster, im sure there's more big hits meaning more headshots, but to imply head hits are a totally new thing is off.

I don't think you can tell the difference between hitting someone and targeting their head. Watch the video I posted and then look at the videos you posted. There's a difference. There's a difference in what Bure did and what's in my video. There's a difference in the video's you posted here and my video.