NHL 2011-2012 Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by NewYorkIslander, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    I think fans are right to be mad with Shanahan. He set a very strong precedent in the preseason and then wilted under the pressure of GMs and players and started becoming legalistic like Campbell.

    Objectively, if you look at a hit like Malone on Campoli (0 games) and compare it to Pacioretty on Letang (3 games) or even worse, Lucic on Miller (0 games) and Tootoo on Miller (2 games) I just don't understand how you can be ready to give him the benefit of the doubt. These were two of several terrible calls where he just failed on every level. His explanation for not suspending Lucic ("He told me he couldn't get out of the way and I believed him") was beyond the pale for many hockey fans and I don't blame them.

    There is only one way to do discipline right in the NHL -- you define as clearly as possible what a suspendable hit looks like and then you suspend it. No bullshit about supposed intent or allowing players to come in and wheel and deal and get off the hook. If a hit looks bad and smells bad, it probably is bad and you should suspend it.

    If Shanahan had followed the above advice this season I think his batting average would be close to 1.000 and everyone would be happy. Pacioretty, Malone, Wolski, Tootoo, Lucic, and Phaneuf (and a few others) would have all been suspended for a few games and the message would be clear. As it stands now, no one knows that a suspendable hit looks like. It's just the good old "Wheel of Justice" again.
     
  2. AR_Six

    AR_Six "Sookie!"

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    Wait wait wait, what would Phaneuf be suspended for? The hit on Sauer? Looked squeaky damned clean to me.

    A Sedin got crosschecked from behind into the boards as recently as last night. And I don't even expect a suspension for the knee on Booth, like I said, which is a more dangerous play than a hard hit and one which in no way resembles a hockey play. Even taking your view, the difference between Fistric being on the good side of the line and the bad side of the line is a matter of inches and milliseconds.

    FWIW I don't think Tootoo should've been suspended either. 5 and a game.

    As for whether it's inexplicable, it's not really because he does do what he can to explain it. Granted, sometimes the explanations are bullshit, but it's still better than it used to be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  3. jarude

    jarude Senior member

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    yeah, that phaneuf hit was a thing of beauty and i dont even like the guy.

    i think shanny doesn't want to fall into the "cooke on savard wasn't disciplined, so _____ won't be disciplined either" trap in regards to lucic and tootoo on miller. everyone was pretty upset with campbell's reasoning there, so maybe the tootoo suspension was a bit of appeasement. either way, he's doing a hell of a lot better job than campbell was. like i said earlier, its 2 months into the season so some questionable decisions are bound to be made. as a whole, i think he's doing a good job; its unfortunate that similar plays are receiving different punishments but in the grand scheme of things im still happy with it.

    on that note, i dont understand why hockey fans in general are so irate for stronger suspensions on players that have been injured. it sucks if you lay out a lindros type who gets concussed if you look at him the wrong way, but as far as creating an incentive to not smash guys in the head, what else are you going to do? granted, some people are going to get caught in the mix - patches v letang comes to mind - but overall, there should be a correlation between suspension and severity of the injury.
     
  4. AR_Six

    AR_Six "Sookie!"

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    I have always said, on here and everywhere else, that the injury that results should bear exactly zero on the discipline. An egregious, dangerous hit that by sheer luck does not result in serious injury should not result in the offender benefiting from the victim's good fortune. Similarly, a clean play (like Phaneuf's) or a borderline play (like Fistric) which causes an injury should not be elevated to five alarm redline throw the book at him status because of it. That's just my view and many, perhaps most, seem to disagree.
     
  5. jarude

    jarude Senior member

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    i think you're framing it as the injury having 100% of the bearing on how long a suspension is. im thinking of it like this: the type of play, dirty hit, elbow, whatever determines if its suspendable and the base length. depending on the injuries sustained, this suspension gets extended. i know that's not exactly how its being enacted right now, but i don't mind a little thin-skull principle being applied to discipline.
     
  6. AR_Six

    AR_Six "Sookie!"

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    Yeah I don't even want it to impact the suspension length. If it was the kind of play that is against the rules and likely to cause an injury, I want them suspended for a long time whether it did cause an injury or not. Same for the other end of the spectrum, if it was borderline suspendable but happened to cause an injury I don't want thin skull to have any bearing.

    PS - Andy Sutton, helpful guy that he is, gives us a good example of leaving your feet for a hit. http://video.thescore.com/watch/sutton-nails-ponikarovsky
     
  7. jarude

    jarude Senior member

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  8. Stazy

    Stazy Senior member

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    Ugh. Oilers' defense is thin as it is. Why u so stupid Sutton?
     
  9. Mr. Bananagrabber

    Mr. Bananagrabber Senior member

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    They will probably be better off. Sutton doesn't really bring much to the table outside boarding and flying elbows.
     
  10. jarude

    jarude Senior member

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    oh yeah?? are you an expert??


    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  11. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Cyber Eliitist

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    Sutton is the most worthless piece of shit. I had to suffer through his years in ATL. Unbearable. I don't think there has ever been anyone in hockey (who somehow repeatedly finds employment) to have that much size and potential and no idea how to use it.

    He is slow, talentless and a liability to boot. How are you 6' 7" and the ONLY way you can hit people is via elbows and cheap shots? Better yet, how do you have a 65 mph slap shot? I used to think he blew defensive assignments just to piss me off. The fact that he has outlived the Thrashers is disgusting. May he die in a fire.
     
  12. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    Phaneuf on Da Costa, not Sauer. Sauer hit was clean.
     
  13. Tck13

    Tck13 Senior member

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    I see that trying to comment on youtube / NHL videos with Shanahan's disciplinary messages leads to "comment pending approval".

    :fu:
     
  14. AR_Six

    AR_Six "Sookie!"

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    I don't think the suspension is actually indefinite it's just a "you're suspended but we won't tell you how many games until we're ready to give you the video explanation to back up our decision" thing.
     
  15. Stazy

    Stazy Senior member

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    Anisimov is a douche. lol


    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011

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