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new ties -- passagio

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by T4phage, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

    Messages:
    894
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    So, if Mr. Cappelli, Mr. Maresco, C&A's tailor and anyone else who is referenced are to be believed, that will only occur if they register on SF and post. If they did, I would expect the next post after theirs would be one calling them socks. As I have stated, I have a dozen PC ties. Nice fabric, some with excellent construction others with issues. I don't consider myself to have been scammed . However, from a customer service perspective I have issues with the rolling definition of where, when and how much inkjet printing is used. If one cannot accurately and consistently tell you why they do what they do it raises questions. We have seen 100% vintage be downgraded to 90% but with the reproductions being created by the original mills in the same traditional hand printed way or woven as they were almost a century ago to vintage inkjet printed fabrics to statements that inkjet a can be of equal or better quality than screened prints.

    We have had experts state what they believe inkjet prints look like. We have seen - in my opinion - confusion over English contemporary prints being portrayed as vintage Italian ones.

    The inconsistencies alone and failure to address valid questions rather than accusations breeds more questions.

    Frankly, I would assume that one could create high quality inkjet printed silks that recreate lost patterns and that would be fine. However, explaining this after the fact only after the issue is brought up by others is interesting.

    The high quality inkjet silk prints also blows the feel test out of the water, no?

    Might be easier to discuss our opinions on whether climate change exists
     
    2 people like this.
  2. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
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    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    
    this is done
    all the time
    especially in
    italy
    many
    pocketsquares
    are like that

    companies liek
    (h)adamley
    mantero
    ratti
    canepa
    have huge
    archives of
    thier patterns
    which can be consulted
    and recreated
    in inkjet


    'feel test'
    ?

    teh mythical
    difference in
    handle between
    a modern
    and 'vintage'
    silk
    ?
    joking right
    ?

    it all depends
    on teh quality
    of silk
    and finishing
    but it is pure
    bs
    you can tell
    by touch


    i was speaking
    to the person in charge
    of printing in one
    of england's largest
    silk printing concerns
    they mentioned
    how italy was much
    moar advanced
    in the use and
    deployment of
    inkjet printers
    vs engand

    one moar thing
    screening on a
    white silk
    (not dyed teh
    background colour)
    is done......
    ......
    usually when teh
    background is
    white
    eg:

    [​IMG]

    ^
    yes it is
    teh 'vintage'
    but not exaggerated
    claims on
    its shoulders
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
    4 people like this.
  3. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

    Messages:
    894
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    May 9, 2008
    Thanks for that T4. The reference to the "feel test" was in response to someone who posted in the other thread that you could tell the difference between inkjet & screen print just by feel. I am dubious of that given if you start with high quality silk, and whether it is vintage or not, what difference can be felt?
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
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    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    
    i would
    be dubious too
    especially with
    teh newer stuff

    funny thing
    i heard about
    teh early inkjet
    prints
    (this from
    one ex partner
    of a famous
    neapolitan
    rtw tailoring
    house)
    when this
    tailoring house
    started offering
    inkjet printed ties
    way back when
    (or so many years
    on its shoulder)
    when it would
    get wet
    the colours would
    change.....
    customers would
    ask why....
    and the tailoring
    house said...
    lol...
    it is a vintage
    effect
    lol
    lolz
    lawlz
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
    2 people like this.
  5. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
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    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    
    if teh archival patterns
    are exactly teh
    same
    stroke for
    stroke
    it is
    then most likly
    fromteh
    same printers
    whose archive
    it came from
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

    Messages:
    894
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    May 9, 2008
    So if it resembles an Adamley print stroke for strike, as you say, it is most likely from them or whoever owns the archive
     
  7. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
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    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    ^
    usually true

    however
    with teh advent
    of hi res scanners
    i'm sure other
    companies have
    been scanning
    and copying
     
  8. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    A bit like this:

    Vintage- Made in England
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Modern Reproduction- Made in Italy
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,292
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    Jan 4, 2005
    Location:
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    

    Our Macclesfield prints are hand screened in Macclesfield, England by David Evans/Adamley. Note some say David Evans has disappeared but I can tell you that we have received invoices from them within the last 10 years... So maybe the company ghost is still printing and invoicing.

    And I was told that when Silk Industries bought Adamley and David Evans they were merged and only the physical David Evans location was closed down. Staff, art etc mostly simply moved, so not much was lost. Now they are part of a different company and they have recently started to offer inkjet prints but we have not made an inkjet order.

    I love the colors of their screened prints.

    At the moment we do not have time to print or weave but we have lots of experience doing yarn reeled,dyed woven silks by hand. Many of those silks are so perfectly - mirror - dark on the back that you can easily use either side. But these silks have woven designs - not printed.

    I have never seem a printed silk like this were you can use the back.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  10. CHRK33

    CHRK33 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,206
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Location:
    DC
    

    @LA Guy, I understand your point regarding community decorum and keeping things civil - I have attempted to keep my posts as clear and factual as possible on the Passaggio Cravatte thread and have even come to Gianni's defense when things became personal from other members. You are stuck in an unenviable position and it is a very difficult balancing act.

    However, I am one of the few current customers that are caught in limbo between payment and delivery of ties when this controversy erupted. And as I have outlined in the Passaggio Cravatte affiliate thread, Gianni has definitely not delivered anything to me and has stolen my money that I paid him. In fact, I have emailed him once a day for the past week to try to reach a resolution and he has NOT responded to me even once. There has to be some recourse for SF users - it affirmatively is a significant issue that requires the forum's attention when an affiliate vendor lies about the provenance of his fabrics to extract a premium, then absconds with a SF user's money, and never responds to any communication to reach some resolution.

    And I am happy to forward all my emails to him that have gone unanswered to prove my point - it really is unacceptable behavior and what is especially infuriating is to see Gianni continue to post nonsense and pics of silks without giving a customer the common courtesy of responding to repeated emails reaching resolution. He was prompt enough when convincing me to send him money via wire transfer but now that he has my money and the controversy erupted he is ignoring me. I have never had this happen to me and I don't want anyone else to suffer the same fate.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. juuceman

    juuceman Senior member

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    

    I'm pretty certain that he has not stolen anything from you at this time. He has also not delivered the ties that you ordered as yet. It is my understanding that there is a chance that the fabric that you receive might not be what you were told when you purchased it, in which case you would have a valid claim of a bait and switch. At the same time, there is also the chance that you will receive exactly what you ordered.

    I'd be interested in seeing the emails that went back and forth during the convincing you to wire him money stage. I says his as someone that initiated contact with him and inquired about the sales process. He wasn't pushy and his emails were,at times, less than the model of clarity.
     
  12. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

    Messages:
    894
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    anyone of the same mind that the custom initials on PC ties are inelegant and detract from the overall presentation of the ties?

    Case in point:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    then the different fabric for the blades, kind of questionable from an esthetic point of view:

    [​IMG]


    oh, then the stained vintage thirst

    [​IMG]

    finally, this little flub

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. sstokol

    sstokol Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2014
    Location:
    Singapore
    Yes. Personally, that gives me more pause before buying at this price point than the current swirl of questions re vintage etc (about which I am unqualfied to offer an opinion and hence won't). I also find the fabrics, for my taste, are hit and miss. But heck, the ones I like, I really really like.

    I did have one thought on the vintage debate... if you like old school retro-style silk / ties, why not just thrift actual old ties? Can anything be done to "freshen" or "refurbish" an older tie??
     
  14. C&A

    C&A Senior member

    Messages:
    866
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    Mar 10, 2006
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I honestly don't know why you would get a tie monogrammed in the first place. It's not like a shirt that can get mixed up at the dry cleaners.

    And I agree that the monograms you quoted here don't do the ties any favours.

    Before Gianni showed his bi-colour ties I always associated them with Hilfiger ties and the like. Certainly not something I would get. And I wonder whether it was really the standard 100 years ago...

    Finally the tag. Surely a quality control issue. There is also an issue with the construction of some of my ties. Gianni tends to recommend 7 fold unlined for almost anything he offers. Although this is definately not the right construction for all the fabrics he is selling.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  15. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    ^
    4 different patterns
    of the same colourways
    on one fabric
    is commonly seen
    when printers send
    a colour blanket
    to see different patterns
    in teh same colours......

    and look at teh patterns
    at the borders
    and edges
    if it is screened/block
    teh pattern should be
    complete
    not cut off....
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    

    It is a good point and I have plenty of vintage ties (mostly passed onto me), however is difficult for vintage tie to be in very good condition, and some are indeed too shorts. However with this approach http://www.styleforum.net/t/306495/dissection-and-reconstruction-of-a-charles-tyrwhitt-grenadine you could also wash the fabric and re-assemble the tie with fresh/top quality interlining.
     
  17. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

    Messages:
    894
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    May 9, 2008
    Came across this site which has partnered with Antonio Muro to produce small runs of vintage fabric ties.

    http://www.the-journal-of-style.com/2013/03/26/shop-antonio-muro-ties-from-vintage-silks/

    But the last paragraph on the site is interesting:

    "Unlike more known tiemakers from Naples (I shall not mention names), the Antonio Muro family makes all ties itself. There is a transparent relation between name and a product."

    Lack of transparency is what brings us here now isn't it?
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Senior member

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    Location:
    NE PA
    

    Wow, those look like shit. He should be ashamed to sell that garbage.
     
    2 people like this.
  19. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

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    894
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    Indeed, Harold, indeed
     
    2 people like this.
  20. teoky

    teoky Senior member

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    May 6, 2014
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    Somewhere in the East
    Would like to know, how's Antonio Muro tie's quality compare to other more well known SF approved brands such as Hober, Vanda, EG Capelli etc.
     

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