NEW TAILOR BESPOKE NAPLES

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Gianni Cerutti, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. P-K-L

    P-K-L Senior member

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    +1

    Look at this picture from a few years ago
    [​IMG]

    No #dandyelegant shoulder, glasses, exploding parrot pocket square, ancient vintage thirst, no obvious HAND MANIPULATIONS... short sleeves....
    Call it accountant chic.
     


  2. jedwards

    jedwards Senior member

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    Fair enough Marco.

    All I would say as a counter-argument is this:

    I'm British and speak very little Italian - Years ago, if I had googled "Naples tailors" - I guess I would have found Rubinacci. Those prices are not the prices I would pay for a suit.
    So maybe I would have thought "all Naples sartoria that serve non-Italians are very expensive"... Bear in mind, I am not confident to go around asking Italians how to find a good local tailor at a cheaper price.

    Now, with threads like this I can see there are many other tailors who produce high quality work at much more affordable prices. The pictures are very useful. The guide prices are very useful.
    To me, this is a good thing as a non-Italian with zero knowledge of "how to find a tailor who is willing to work with foreign guys who don't speak much Italian".

    All the information is here on SF (or on Simon's blog I guess).

    NOW... Some will now say "Oh but GC or SC are getting kickbacks so that makes the whole thing biassed". Undoubtedly there is bias in these 'reviews' or 'narratives' but what alternative is there for someone like me who wants to try out an 'Italian tailor' and wants to have information before I walk into the tailor shop ?

    As to him asking for kickbacks, or not, I personally think that is very tacky, ultimately I have always thought a tailor is basically paid per hour and you are asking him to effectively work for free when you start asking for massive discounts or free clothes - I would not feel good asking some one-man-band tailor to work for free, no matter how "influential" I may be but that's just me.
    If someone you have established a good relationship with says "you're a good guy, here's my friends and family rate" then that is a different matter, but I personally would have ethics against asking small operations where the money is in the service, not the product sold, for a discount. If they choose to offer you a discount, unprompted, or pro-rata, that's a different matter.
     


  3. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    I appreciate your counter arguments but there was already enough cover of Neapolitan tailors and their price competitiveness before on the interweb, if you wanted to search.

    I keep promising myself to do a long write up on Neapolitan tailoring and how misinterpreted the situation is on this and other forum.

    In a nut shell:
    -Neapolitan tailoring has been famous within Italy since the unification of Italy (1860) and by the end of the century, names like sartoria Caggiula and others were considered the best of the best.
    - In early 1900s international clientele, travelling to what remained of the gran tour, and visiting the early holiday destinations of Sorrento, Capri, etc., started appreciating the city tailors and ordering from them, also thanks to the incredibly competitive pricing.
    -During the 1950's, Neapolitan tailors stole completely the scene of the first menswear events hosted in Sanremo ( think Pitti Uomo but only for traditional tailors/sartoria) : By now, Schiraldi, Blasi and few others were already known worldwide, counting the original billionaires amongst their clientele (think Onassis). Again, un underling factors to the rise of the industry, even within Italian politicians from all regions but getting garments made in Naples, was the incredible competitive price. Rubinacci and his tailor Attolini were not better known than the ones I just mentioned.
    -Neapolitan tailoring has always been softer thanks to the canvasses and general construction of the jacket, leaving aside the shoulders as only evidence of "soft construction", I can look easily at pictures of family members going back to 1890 and earlier, to clearly see that. There is already debate about what Attolini real contribution has actually been, but undoubtedly he may have taken elements of what was then made in Naples and further worked on some details. In any case, him and his employer came to be known for the soft look, but if one really look into it, the early examples were simply spring/summer wear, so winter garments may have still looked like the rest of what people was making and wearing in Naples.

    Now, as you keep being a bit naive, you have to fundamentally understand that business transaction and relationship in Italy are not the same as in the Anglo speaking world.

    I have made this example before, but again, I once bought a pair of cufflinks at the Bulgari boutique in Via Filangieri in Naples as a present to a relative of mine. They had a price tag that was in line (taking into account exchange rate) to what I had paid few months earlier for a similar pair at the Bulgari boutique within Selfridges in London.
    When i went to the cashier, having not asked about anything, I was informed that they could apply a 10% discount to make it more inviting...
    It is also very common to ask for discounts in regular local shops, and/or for the owner to offer you one when making multiple purchases. I know for a fact that some people I introduced to tailor/shirtmakers, even by not being locals, paid less than I do per garment because they made a large multiple purchase per order, vs the one or two at the time I normally do. I understand that and will not take it back to the tailor/shirtmaker. At the end of the day, they do save time and labour money buy cutting multiple jackets / shirts for the same client at once.

    Finally, once more, Pirozzi does not need GC indeed, but as others have demonstrated, GC has been clearly conning him as well... If you think that his thriving tie business made him so much disposable income that he could afford suddenly a bespoke wardrobe, then there is no matter of explanation or proof to make you believe otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014


  4. P-K-L

    P-K-L Senior member

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    But Marco you have no evidence! Please show me the official statement by the tailor together with the tailor's company stamp and signature of both him and his financial director!!!
     


  5. jedwards

    jedwards Senior member

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    Marco...

    What is it you are objecting to?

    Obviously I don't know as much as Napoli tailoring as a gentleman like you who is born and bred in the city with many family connections - I would love to know as much as possible, but, as an outsider, my knowledge is of course limited to the English speaking world and those who "care to share" online.

    Quite clearly, Mr. Cerruti has, at best, mislead people. As I have not been involved in any personal transactions with him, I will say no more on the matter.

    That aside.

    We have a fairly, photo heavy, useful thread here about a Neopolitan tailor who is not Rubinacci.
    I'd never heard of Mr. Pirozzi - so I have learned a lot about this gentleman. Unless people like Cerruti take the time to do this, I am not going to have this kind of knowledge of 'new' 'unknown' tailors am I?

    He gets kickbacks - what difference does that make to me who just likes to read about different tailors and learn about different styles?
    As you say, discounting is a common practice in Italy, I've experienced a friendly discount myself sometimes, so this is not exactly going against Italian tradition of trading relationships.

    So now, what is the argument of contention?

    Well, if it's just that GC is not well liked on here.... Well, yeah, I mean is.... Il Papi Catolica ?
     


  6. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    There were people on this and other english speaking forums over the years that used other Neapolitan tailors and talked about a long list. Carpu who is a member here and many other forums has often spoken about other names. Without any biased influence you could go and research the subject and images without the need of this sort of thread.

    Once again, you and some others are argueing that without evidence you do not believe that GC get free stuff... I am telling you otherwise! The example about the discount, event at international chain's naples outpost, was to give you an idea of the culture, as you were argueing that a tailor could not give a considerable discount as his time was worth money, etc...
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014


  7. carpu65

    carpu65 Senior member

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  8. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    He is the Maresca's tailor nowadays, i meant Carfora who does a very good stuff. I was with him on Maresca's house last Saturday.

    Maresca showed us, well he was wearing it, the jacket whose shoulder is on the world wide famous pic of shoulder explanation of spalla camicia, concave or normal. That is a Pirozzi jacket.

    On the pic, it seems the jacket has a great fit as only the shoulder is seen but on the reality, is an squared fridge carton like terrible ill fitting 3 sizes more like most of GC jackets.
     


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