New Shoes & Clothes - Friendship Among Strangers

[well-kept]

A PROPOSAL...

A recent first-time thread from a new member confessing to uncontrolled shoe buying may have resonated with many members. It raises the issue of friendship among strangers, implicit in this forum. The topic was two-fold. 'What should I buy next?' And 'How can I stop buying?'

All of us know the feeling of making an extravagant purchase, the acrobatics of justification, the amortization calculations. Many of us own all we need. We also know that there is a line between a deliberate, perhaps necessary purchase with discretionary funds and the involuntary puchase that cannot be afforded and will cause some degree of harm. The 'hide-the-receipts-from-your-wife' purchase. To encourage anyone down this path, perhaps because we will then have company, is unkind not only to the person who, so encouraged, will then buy something he doesn't strictly "want" to buy, but also to ourselves.

I'd like to propose a level of support that might be practiced here. We admire the quality of members' acquisitions, recognize bargains, evaluate the fine points of ownership. But members can also serve as mutually friendly safeguards to each other. The answer to "Do I really need another X, Y or Z" can be "Enjoy what you already have. Save your money for the great new thing that may appeal to you next month or next year. Don't do anything you'll feel bad about or need to hide."

The new member was told he had the beginnings of an addiction that would only deepen and be encouraged by SF members. SF in its highest purpose is, I believe, about the pleasures of acquiring, owning and using fine things. But addiction and pleasure are very different creatures. And while it can be sublime to share a glass of rare vintage among wine connoisseurs, to pour for someone on the verge of alcoholism or already in its grip has no possible redemption.

All thoughts are welcome.

 

[The Deacon]

well-kept,
your eloquent, elegant proposal is spot-on accurate, empathetic and instructive. It should be labelled as mandatory reading for such forums.

 

[Keith T]

I would hope that SF would be just such a place. Obviously, many "enablers" make their comments in a tongue-in-cheek fashion, but there is much truth in your post. I truly like where you are coming from with this idea. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for anyone but the purchaser himself to know what his exact motivations are, and whether those motivations have truly crossed the line into an unhealthy compulsion. I think we all want to be helpful here, rather than hurtful. But suffice it to say that I do appreciate your proposal and look forward to input from other SFers.

 

[lawyerdad]

While I applaud the OP's intentions, and believe that at times the forum has and in the future will continue to serve such a function in particular circumstances, I also think that consciously trying to adopt such an "ethos" for the board would prove naive and ineffective. First, I find it highly unlikely that this board can serve as much of a psychological support network. For one thing, the anonymity and public openness that are inherent in the medium strike me as antithetical to this. To my understanding, direct personal interaction, shared purpose, rigorous honesty, clear boundaries, and the trust that arise from these are pretty central to pretty much any addiction support group.
Second, I simply don't think that any group devoted to discussing the attractions of any hobby/vice/whatever can also serve effectively as a support group for those whose interest or devotion has become effective. If somebody really has a problem with buying clothes -- or for that matter for ogling Japanese/Indian/Latino women or with compulsive DE shaving -- I can't think of a worse "place" for them to be spending their time than here. I'm no psychologist, but it seems pretty clear to me you can't simultaneously address and addiction or compulsion and wallow in the the object of that compulsion or addiction.
Third, when we're talking about something that's not as inherently destructive as, say, compulsive smoking of crack cocaine, the notion that there is a clear line between "acceptable" enthusiam for hobbies and interest, exaggerated descriptions of the same for humorous or emphatic purposes, and "pour[ing] for someone on the verge of alcoholism" is, imho, fallacious. If people posting here are supposed to think twice about whether their posts might be "triggers" for someone with an out-of-control shoe/pocket square/fedora fetish, j may as well pull the plug right now.

 

[sho'nuff]

yes, i do think your proposal have truths and is well meaning, well thought out.


i think the above responses are right, lot of it is in tongue in cheek when egging on but cmon that shouldnt be a cause for concern, we are all adults here and capable of making our own decisions and facing our own consequences. no one is holding a gun to our heads.

 

[well-kept]

The thread that inspired this one is back today. It begins with "Hello..."

I'd like to keep this dialog open.

 

[EL72]

Originally Posted by well-kept

The thread that inspired this one is back today. It begins with "Hello..."

I'd like to keep this dialog open.

If you have something to add to the discussion, by all means, but don't just bump your own threads on both forums this way.

 

[well-kept]

Originally Posted by EL72

If you have something to add to the discussion, by all means, but don't just bump your own threads on both forums this way.

I do have something to add. As someone replied, coming here is like going to Vegas to seek help for a gambling compulsion. But if one believed, reasonably, that only in Vegas could he find anyone to empathize, a fellow traveler, then he'd be correct in doing so. I don't believe the member is asking for help in finding quality shoe trees. I feel something of importance is being raised and perhaps ignored.

 

[wheelerray]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

While I applaud the OP's intentions, and believe that at times the forum has and in the future will continue to serve such a function in particular circumstances, I also think that consciously trying to adopt such an "ethos" for the board would prove naive and ineffective. First, I find it highly unlikely that this board can serve as much of a psychological support network. For one thing, the anonymity and public openness that are inherent in the medium strike me as antithetical to this. To my understanding, direct personal interaction, shared purpose, rigorous honesty, clear boundaries, and the trust that arise from these are pretty central to pretty much any addiction support group.
Second, I simply don't think that any group devoted to discussing the attractions of any hobby/vice/whatever can also serve effectively as a support group for those whose interest or devotion has become effective. If somebody really has a problem with buying clothes -- or for that matter for ogling Japanese/Indian/Latino women or with compulsive DE shaving -- I can't think of a worse "place" for them to be spending their time than here. I'm no psychologist, but it seems pretty clear to me you can't simultaneously address and addiction or compulsion and wallow in the the object of that compulsion or addiction.
Third, when we're talking about something that's not as inherently destructive as, say, compulsive smoking of crack cocaine, the notion that there is a clear line between "acceptable" enthusiam for hobbies and interest, exaggerated descriptions of the same for humorous or emphatic purposes, and "pour[ing] for someone on the verge of alcoholism" is, imho, fallacious. If people posting here are supposed to think twice about whether their posts might be "triggers" for someone with an out-of-control shoe/pocket square/fedora fetish, j may as well pull the plug right now.

+1. Well put. Additionally, anyone who is truly addicted will not hear the interventions even if offered. My approach is to place tongue in cheek and take the 'addiction thinking' to the extreme to show its ludicrousness, such as this nonsense from an earlier post about how to keep your spouse from getting angry about your purchases:


Yes, of course it makes sense to me and fellow forumites. I may be able to give you a head-start on how to best handle the "Mrs. Dreamer" issue.

At the crux of the following suggestions is the old adage that "What she doesn't know won't hurt her." Because of this, you do not have to feel guilty--you are doing her a kindness by concealing your purchases from her.
.
1. Have your credit card statements sent out only by e-copy--to your email address only.

2. Get all packages delivered to your work address, or to a trusted friend's house.

3. Get a different cell phone and keep it only at work-- use this number for on-line and special orders where a phone number must be given.

4. Never, ever complain to her about breaking in new shoes. When asked; "Aren't those new shoes?" get angry and indignant about how little attention she pays to your efforts to dress nicely for her, since you've had these shoes for months!

5. Hide an old pair of shoes when you're ready to sneak in a new pair. That way the count remains the same until she gets used to seeing the new pair around. After a month or two, "find" the old pair while cleaning out the closet.

6. Buy lighter color shoes first. When you add in a new, darker pair you can claim you just antiqued an old pair and they just look different.


Believe me, I don't really do any of these things. No, really. Honest, I don't, I don't!

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by well-kept

I do have something to add. As someone replied, coming here is like going to Vegas to seek help for a gambling compulsion. But if one believed, reasonably, that only in Vegas could he find anyone to empathize, a fellow traveler, then he'd be correct in doing so. I don't believe the member is asking for help in finding quality shoe trees. I feel something of importance is being raised and perhaps ignored.
Fine, but then what is being proposed? I haven't seen the post you're referencing, but if someone seems to be looking for guidance, empathy, concrete advice about treatment options, or whatever, then people who are in a position to do so should not hesitate to help. But aside from attempting to respond to apparent direct needs, what do you really expect people here to do? To change your analogy slightly, it might be rational -- although perhaps risky -- for an alchoholic to venture into a bar looking for a "fellow traveler". And, one hopes, if that were to happen some of the patrons in the bar might attempt to be of assistance. But does that mean people who are not alcoholics but are discernning and sometimes enthusiastic drinkers should not sit around laughing boisterously and enjoying a pitcher of beer with their friends or discussing in public the differences among various single malts, because of the risk that it might create a triggering environment for someone who might wander into the bar?
Again, I certainly have no quarrel with your intentions. But good intentions not coupled with a certain pragmatic perspective are often ineffective or worse.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by wheelerray

6. Buy lighter color shoes first. When you add in a new, darker pair you can claim you just antiqued an old pair and they just look different.


#6 is pure genius

 

[well-kept]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

what do you really expect people here to do? .

Simple. When someone has the courage to admit to a spending problem and then asks 'what should I buy next?' the responsible answer is "nothing". Don't suggest the merits of thousand dollar shoes. Simple.

 

[sho'nuff]

well, that is sort of what we are saying here, it is fun to post and fun to talk about our shoes , but to take away that fun by saying "nothing' when someone asks what should i do with my money, that is not benefiting the whole point of this forum.
i think that person who has that issue with addiction or financial problem should not even be asking it in the first place here,
he knows well what sort of discussions go on around here, i mean, who is the ultimate person in taking accountability of your decisions it got to be you?

an addict walking into a bar it is not the people's responsibility to become somber and stop showing drink, i mean , they are there to have fun, it is unfair to say they have any mandated responsibliyty, of course , a few of those there may have their own issues and problems as well.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

I would hope that no one here is buying clothes or shoes he can't afford based upon the advice of random strangers on the internet. If someone is, I advise that he click the "X" in the upper right hand corner of the screen and seek professional help. That solution is preferable to asking individuals to temper their enthusiasm on what, after all, is an enthusiast's site.

 

[sho'nuff]

exactly my point.