New Raphael suit (not mine)

[Cravate_Noire]

Button stance, collar, overall balance look impeccable. But that's it.
Other than that I personally think that I can almost agree with the Canali comparison.

However, more important is the fact that he needs more hair and then an actual hair cut

.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Cravate_Noire

Button stance, collar, overall balance look impeccable. But that's it.
Other than that I personally think that I can almost agree with the Canali comparison.

However, more important is the fact that he needs more hair and then an actual hair cut

.

Hans cut?

- B

 

[voxsartoria]

Alright...I'm off to the gym.

I don't want anyone to break this thread while I am gone.


- B

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

You zigged where I was hoping people would zag.

I think that the Raph is about ten times the price, and naturally, it is fit much better and made with a much finer hand. The parallel I was trying to draw was in the overall style...which some in this thread have called generic, what you call hybridized, what Carl called a very NYC sort of finance suit...and what I call the ruined 80s look.

At a certain point, technical correctness and style merge, no? It's hard for me to see these two as being of a similar overall style when they are executed so differently. Is the shoulder line of the RTW example an incorrect attempt to achieve what my friend has, or simply a less tasteful aesthetic choice? I'm not sure we can ever say for sure on many such matters.

 

[Despos]

Originally Posted by jefferyd

Though it looks as though the front was cut away a great deal, it was not- it was cut fairly straight.
Observe the stripes- if the balance and fit is correct, they should hang parallel to each other below the waist. They do not. whnay's stance is fairly neutral in the staircase photo yet the fronts gape terribly. They should not.[/I]

Very astute observation/explanation, I detect you are on to something. I thought this depth of technical analysis was only available on the "advanced forum". If this jacket were unbuttoned I think the fronts would be so open you could see the front trouser pockets.[IMG]https://www.styleforum.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[George]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

It's definitely a romp.

Screenshot of the drawn pattern to which Edwin referred in his LL post that I quote earlier in this thread:

- B

My first tailor, was a little southern Italian chap, not a Neapolitan, he came from Bari. He did his formal training at a school in the north, it may have been Bologna I can't recall exactly where but I do remember it was in the north. He used to use exactly the same technique that Alden describes in that thread, that is after taking measures he would take down a stock pattern he himself had created previously, place it on the cloth and manipulate the pattern. He never created an individualised pattern for his customers as he had nowhere to store them, when the customer ordered another suit he would just run through the same process again. For him the key stage was the fitting of the garment, in this area he was meticulous. Sadly, he has left this mortal coil to ply his trade in that great Sartoria in the sky. He is much missed.

 

[Despos]

Originally Posted by George

My first tailor, was a little southern Italian chap, not a Neapolitan, he came from Bari. He did his formal training at a school in the north, it may have been Bologna I can't recall exactly where but I do remember it was in the north. He used to use exactly the same technique that Alden describes in that thread, that is after taking measures he would take down a stock pattern he himself had created previously, place it on the cloth and manipulate the pattern. He never created an individualised pattern for his customers as he had nowhere to store them, when the customer ordered another suit he would just run through the same process again. For him the key stage was the fitting of the garment, in this area he was meticulous. Sadly, he has left this mortal coil to ply his trade in that great Sartoria in the sky. He is much missed.

Much truth in your comments. I have said this before but I'll say it again. It's what happens after the suit is cut that matters. Fittings are essential.

There are really great tailors from this part of Italy. One of my best friends is from Bari. Probably the most intuitive, naturally talented tailor I have ever known.

 

[JohnnyCrockett]

Your friend's used car salesman haircut is what kills the look.

The suit is a great looking normal suit -- a politician's suit. I don't think a similar look couldn't be achieved with a Paul Stuart suit at 1/5 the price, but I think he still looks good (excluding the hair). Shoes are also an issue.

 

[UnFacconable]

You said this today:

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Ultimately, I think the expectations for bespoke are too high around here. There is nothing magical about it. I don't think successful bespoke will necessarily jump leaps and bounds beyond excellent-fitting RTW; the differences tend to be fine and nuanced, not earth shattering.
You had this exchange with Bounder a few days ago in the RSS thread:

Originally Posted by Bounder

I think we fundamentally disagree on the "purpose" of bespoke v. RTW. If you're just interested in getting well-fitting clothes to wear, RTW is the answer. A well-made RTW suit and a competent alterations tailor will yield excellent results. The only way you will be actively dissatisfied is if you are both compulsive and anal-retentive. A tailor once told me a story about a client who insisted on having his pants taken in by an eighth of an inch. Bespoke isn't really about proper fit -- unless you're a body-builder or something -- it's about participating in the process.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

If this forum is any indication, RTW that can altered to fit nearly as well as good bespoke is extraordinarily rare. The work that goes into shaping a bespoke jacket just can't be replicated on a mass production scale.
There seems to be some dissonance in your opinion as to what the purpose of bespoke is. I think it's perfectly valid for people to discuss whether a bespoke suit fits/looks any differently from an OTR Canali. For lots of people with average measurements, off the rack stuff can look great.

 

[Will]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Several suits in solid shades of gray, maybe with a few with a bit of texture or tone on tone patterning, is logical in any wardrobe.

Same with navy.

- B

Hopsack and fresco of course.

 

[mmkn]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Feel free to comment . . .

Originally Posted by aportnoy

For comparison purposes...one of my Raphael suits



One thing is clear, Mr. Raphael senses his clients well by the suit he makes for them! Seemingly happy clients looking very good . . . can't get more specific than that.

- M

 

[Baron]

There's something inelegant in the shape of the jacket on your friend's suit. Maybe it's just that it needs to be pressed or to "relax" a bit? I'm not sure and it would be impossible to tell for sure from a single photo, but the silhouette in that picture is unflattering in the waist and shoulders in particular.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by UnFacconable

There seems to be some dissonance in your opinion as to what the purpose of bespoke is. I think it's perfectly valid for people to discuss whether a bespoke suit fits/looks any differently from an OTR Canali. For lots of people with average measurements, off the rack stuff can look great.

There's no dissonance: good bespoke can be better than good RTW in ways good RTW cannot match, while good RTW can still be good. I never said RTW can't look great--just that I have not seen any that quite matches the best bespoke.

Yes, it is valid to discuss whether a bespoke suit looks like a RTW suit, but unless one specifies how he's comparing them, it is difficult to understand the ways in which he believes they are similar. "It looks like RTW Canali" doesn't really enlighten.

That being said, I do believe that even if the Raphael suit ordered by my friend is merely impeccably 'correct', that in and of itself is an achievement hardly possibly through RTW.

 

[gnatty8]

I hate the derail here, but he really does need to do something about the hair, it is not a very good look.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Will

Hopsack and fresco of course.

Mais, oui.

- B