New Raphael suit (not mine)

[TheFoo]

Hmm, I can see what Vox and jefferyd are saying about the quarters on Bill's jacket, but I didn't notice anything astray in person. Perhaps the effect is exaggerated by the photos or the way he's standing.

As for Jon's suit: it's true, he didn't particularly care about getting something with a distinctive, defined regional style. He considered Rubinacci and Solito, but decided they weren't worth the trouble, given that he didn't really need to have something Neapolitan. Raphael himself describes his preferences as being very mixed.

If I had a Raphael suit made for myself, I'd probably do something closer to what Portnoy has, but I have to admit that the cleaner, more structured look of Jon's suit makes me jealous in person. The approach is completely different from Rubinacci's. After seeing up close what Raphael does differently, I think it's fair to say there are some real advantages to hybridization. While you lose some regional character, you can make technical gains by reaching into a larger pool of ideas. For example, all the seams on my jackets are lapped, per the Neapolitan/Rubinacci tradition. However, lapping the shoulder seam means that the shoulder will ripple a little bit depending on how I move. So, Raphael doesn't lap the shoulder seam, but does spalla camicia nonetheless. The result is something not clearly one style or another, but arguably better in some respects. Give and take.

Ultimately, I think the expectations for bespoke are too high around here. There is nothing magical about it. I don't think successful bespoke will necessarily jump leaps and bounds beyond excellent-fitting RTW; the differences tend to be fine and nuanced, not earth shattering.

 

[alliswell]

Originally Posted by Shirtmaven

the rahpael suit is a very nyc sort of finance type suit. he will walk into any meeting and he will look appropriate no one will say"amazing suit" but no one will say he is a "small timer"

Carl=

What's your take on the waist of the raphael - it looks like the waist is a touch too tight, and subject's wallet is causing a bulge on the right side. That, or his shoulder posture when being measured was more upright than when he's wearing the jacket, and so he's effectively got two dropped shoulders in the picture.

 

[knittieguy]

I think the suit makes your friend look stylish and well-dressed. Notice that I said it makes your friend look stylish not that the suit itself looks particularly stylish. This is a key difference that is sometimes overlooked on a forum where the focus is usually on particular pieces of clothing rather than an individual's overall look. The suit looks to be plain charcoal gray, which is about as un-distinctive as you can get. And yet if worn with the right shirt and tie, a person can look fantastic in a plain gray suit. Cary Grant probably wore plain gray suits more than any other type of suit. Plain gray suits can also be worn with more varieties of shirts and ties than any other suit I can think of.

So in that sense, it may make complete sense to commission a bespoke suit in plain charcoal gray, since you will get more use out of that suit than if, say, your friend commissioned a pinstripe or windowpane with a distinctive pattern. So if your friend can afford several bespoke Raphael suits, maybe he should get some more distinctive patterns. But if this is his only one, I think it is extremely smart to get plain charcoal. While the suit itself is unlikely to draw a lot of compliments, particularly on this forum, and the suit will not announce "expensive bespoke garment" to all viewers, your friend will generally be thought of as well dressed when he's wearing it.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Tomasso]

JOKE!

 

[voxsartoria]

Widen browser window. Discuss.


- B

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by knittieguy

So in that sense, it may make complete sense to commission a bespoke suit in plain charcoal gray, since you will get more use out of that suit than if, say, your friend commissioned a pinstripe or windowpane with a distinctive pattern.

Several suits in solid shades of gray, maybe with a few with a bit of texture or tone on tone patterning, is logical in any wardrobe.

Same with navy.

- B

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Tomasso

JOKE!

- B

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

So, Raphael doesn't lap the shoulder seam, but does spalla camicia nonetheless.

Foofy, not to doubt you since you are en scene, but Andrew's jacket looks like spalla camicia...your friend's, not.

Your friend might have an open seam, like so...

...maybe with a bit con rollino. Andrew's is more so...

Are you sure about the shoulder treatment?

[diagrams  Mantoni, Inc.]


- B

 

[TheFoo]

^^^ My friend's shoulders are, in fact, open seam--I believe. However, Raphael says he typically does spalla camicia.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Foofy, not to doubt you since you are en scene, but Andrew's jacket looks like spalla camicia...your friend's, not.

Your friend might have an open seam, like so...

...maybe with a bit con rollino. Andrew's is more so...

Are you sure about the shoulder treatment?

[diagrams  Mantoni, Inc.]


- B


The shoulder on Foo's friend seems to have a slight rope to it.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by George

Always makes me laugh when I re-read that thread.

It's definitely a romp.

Screenshot of the drawn pattern to which Edwin referred in his LL post that I quote earlier in this thread:

- B

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

1. The buttoning point is too high relative to his waist. 2. The jacket collar appears too loose. 3. The chest appears a tad too tight, making the lapels gape open a bit (notice the curvature, whereas my friend's lapels are straight over his shirt). 4. The shoulder line is inelegant (there is a sharp break between the jacket's collar and its shoulders). It's still a pretty decent fitting suit, in my book. However, I think a good bespoke tailor would have dealt with the above points, fine as they are. None of those problems appear on either example of Raphael's work exhibited in this thread.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by George

The shoulder on Foo's friend seems to have a slight rope to it.

It is unlikely to be a classic English roping, but a con rollino...the sleeve rises a bit from the seam, but there is no supporting wadding or roping other than the way the open seam is done.

It's the same effect often seen on new A&S-ish jackets.

- B

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

It is unlikely to be a classic English roping, but a con rollino...

To be fair, Raphael takes as liberally from Savile Row practices as he does from Argentinian and southern Italian ones.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

1. The buttoning point is too high relative to his waist.

2. The jacket collar appears too loose.

3. The chest appears a tad too tight, making the lapels gape open a bit (notice the curvature, whereas my friend's lapels are straight over his shirt).

4. The shoulder line is inelegant (there is a sharp break between the jacket's collar and its shoulders).

It's still a pretty decent fitting suit, in my book. However, I would hope that a good bespoke tailor would have dealt with the above points, fine as they are. None of those problems appear on either example of Raphael's work exhibited in this thread.

You zigged where I was hoping people would zag.

I think that the Raph is about ten times the price, and naturally, it is fit much better and made with a much finer hand. The parallel I was trying to draw was in the overall style...which some in this thread have called generic, what you call hybridized, what Carl called a very NYC sort of finance suit...and what I call the ruined 80s look.


- B