New Raphael suit (not mine)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. academe

    academe Senior member

    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    202
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Location:
    Initium sapientiae timor domini
    I never assumed it would.

    Just looks very generic to me, nothing special. If your going to pay $5k + you should get something distinguishable from a RTW Canali....just my opinion.


    Fair enough, nothing really wrong with this point of view.

    ...However, I think that this way of thinking in many ways misses the whole point of bespoke. To me, it's not really about getting "bang for your buck". If that were the whole point of the exercise, I would just not go the bespoke route whatsoever. I think - as others have commented in RSS's recent thread - one of the main appeals of bespoke is about being engaged in the process, working with a craftsman, and getting something tailored specifically for you. Although price does play some role in the evaluation process, I think it is really a minor concern.
     


  2. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    339
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    If this is how the jacket is intrisically (and it might be, looking at the relationship of the edge to the pattern,) I guess I would say that I would prefer the quarters opened up in more of curve rather that shooting away straight from the buttoning point. Otherwise, it could be confused with being tight around the hips.
    [​IMG] Though it looks as though the front was cut away a great deal, it was not- it was cut fairly straight. Observe the stripes- if the balance and fit is correct, they should hang parallel to each other below the waist. They do not. whnay's stance is fairly neutral in the staircase photo yet the fronts gape terribly. They should not.
     


  3. George

    George Senior member

    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Location:
    Lasciate ogne speranze voi qu'intrate
    whnay. often stands awkwardly in his photographs. Here's another pic of that A&S Breanish:

    [​IMG]

    I really like this jacket...the only thing that puzzles me is how the quarters open. The bottom button and buttonhole are a canyon apart, which would normally mean, if the jacket fits, that the guy is walking or stooped a bit forward in the shot.

    If this is how the jacket is intrisically (and it might be, looking at the relationship of the edge to the pattern,) I guess I would say that I would prefer the quarters opened up in more of curve rather that shooting away straight from the buttoning point. Otherwise, it could be confused with being tight around the hips.

    Again, not right or wrong, just what I would prefer.


    - B


    I think the quarters are cut to be like that. There a definite negative rake to the cut of the quarters making the top button look like a pivot point. I don't mind that, a bit Italian though.

    I still think the waist is too tight, the pattern unfortunately highlights it due to it distorting. The shoulders are nice.
     


  4. milosh

    milosh Senior member

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    233
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    I really like the A&S jacket.
     


  5. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Though it looks as though the front was cut away a great deal, it was not- it was cut fairly straight.
    Observe the stripes- if the balance and fit is correct, they should hang parallel to each other below the waist. They do not. whnay's stance is fairly neutral in the staircase photo yet the fronts gape terribly. They should not.


    I think that whnay. liked the "Astaire" think piece A&S did for the Pitti show, and asked for a similar cut (B., correct me if I'm wrong.) Here's the think piece in Tokyo:

    [​IMG]

    Same thing. BTW, Edwin did not...how should I put it?..admire the Astaire experimental number. The phrase "put sheers through it" came up.

    I still like whnay.'s jacket a whole lot. I guess we agree, though, that the quarters are open in a way that we would hope not.


    - B
     


  6. why

    why Senior member

    Messages:
    9,735
    Likes Received:
    405
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Maybe it's just me, but that stance is too high. It's pinching his lower ribs.
     


  7. texas_jack

    texas_jack Senior member

    Messages:
    10,257
    Likes Received:
    477
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Location:
    Hobart, IN
    I like Portnoy's suit a lot better. Op's picture is fine but too boring.
     


  8. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    339
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I think that whnay. liked the "Astaire" think piece A&S did for the Pitti show, and asked for a similar cut (B., correct me if I'm wrong.) Here's the think piece in Tokyo: [​IMG] Same thing. BTW, Edwin did not...how should I put it?..admire the Astaire experimental number. The phrase "put sheers through it" came up. I still like whnay.'s jacket a whole lot. I guess we agree, though, that the quarters are open in a way that we would hope not. - B
    I tend to agree with Edwin. One can achieve the same degree of cutaway in the skirt, yet maintain a plumb grainline. There are so many points that can be argued stylistically about the craft, but the plummbline is not one of them. Neither of those coats is correct. However from the point of view that wnay wanted the Astaire coat, he got the Astaire coat and thus is a success of sorts. The fit aside, it is a nice coat and he has dressed it up well.
     


  9. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    I tend to agree with Edwin. One can achieve the same degree of cutaway in the skirt, yet maintain a plumb grainline. There are so many points that can be argued stylistically about the craft, but the plummbline is not one of them. Neither of those coats is correct.

    However from the point of view that wnay wanted the Astaire coat, he got the Astaire coat and thus is a success of sorts. The fit aside, it is a nice coat and he has dressed it up well.


    His dislike of it was not only that, but in how many aspects of the "Astaire" coat's cut and visible construction represented to him a loss of what he loved about the old A&S.

    But, who isn't sentimental about the past, particularly as we grow older? [​IMG]


    - B
     


  10. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    3,365
    Likes Received:
    320
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Location:
    NYC
    the rahpael suit is a very nyc sort of finance type suit. he will walk into any meeting and he will look appropriate no one will say"amazing suit" but no one will say he is a "small timer"

    now the problem with Whany's jacket is that he has very sloping shoulders the A & S cut only accentuates the sloping shoulders. a little padding would help. of course he would need to find a different tailor. the Astair jacket looks much stronger at the shoulder line.
     


  11. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    the rahpael suit is a very nyc sort of finance type suit. he will walk into any meeting and he will look appropriate no one will say"amazing suit" but no one will say he is a "small timer".

    Exactly.

    - B
     


  12. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    339
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    His dislike of it was not only that, but in how many aspects of the "Astaire" coat's cut and visible construction represented to him a loss of what he loved about the old A&S.



    - B


    I think it was a Permanent Style article which claimed that the A&S coat had not changed in 60 years. Would Edwin disagree? [​IMG]
     


  13. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

    Messages:
    9,478
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Not in Atlanta, GA
    I like Portnoy's suit a lot better. Op's picture is fine but too boring.

    I agree with this, but then, guy in the original picture may have just wanted steady, middle of the road, which he got. Trousers are too long for me, but of course, that's a personal preference. Aportnoy's just looks far, far better.
     


  14. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    I think it was a Permanent Style article which claimed that the A&S coat had not changed in 60 years. Would Edwin disagree? [​IMG]

    I think that Edwin summed up his thoughts in this LL thread:

    Only Tom and I cut in the original A&S method, which is by drafting from scratch, using a free hand and rock of eye, if you want.

    It would be very easy for a cutter from one Savile row house to move to another as the drafting procedure is basically the same and they would be using the house blocks, which weren't so at A&S, whereby the patterns and drafting method would be quite foreign to another cutter not trained at A&S. Sadly this original method is now lost at Andersons.

    If you go to their web site & click on house style, then style, where the first line tells you that the A&S look is defined by a lightly padded shoulder, then click on the cutting tab under the same heading you will see a pattern, that to me bears no resemblance to any pattern I've seen cut at Andersons and where they have written, 4 ply's of wadding on the Right shoulder. Is that a soft lightly padded natural shoulder?


    Joshua Byrne and he have a lively discussion in that thread.

    It's just one person's view, of course, although an educated one.


    - B
     


  15. George

    George Senior member

    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Location:
    Lasciate ogne speranze voi qu'intrate
    I think that Edwin summed up his thoughts in this LL thread: Joshua Byrne and he have a lively discussion in that thread. It's just one person's view, of course, although an educated one. - B
    Always makes me laugh when I re-read that thread.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by