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New Raphael suit (not mine)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. mmkn

    mmkn Senior member

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    Seriously? It just looks lopsided.

    [​IMG]


    Need robotic pose for standardized comparisons . . . not too Igor-ish though . . .

    - M
     
  2. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I think the lop-sidedness might be the result of Vox's posture. He's ever so slightly leaning to the right and lifting his left leg--very lifestyle, Vox. That might also explain why the waist silhouette looks different on each side. My jackets consistently display this effect in photos, too.

    For me, the main issue remains the angle and point at which the quarters open. It looks like in whnay's photo, but without the pattern to make it as obvious.
     
  3. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

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    ^ This is what I was thinking.
    For comparison purposes...one of my Raphael suits [​IMG]
    Gorgeous suit.
    ... On the other hand, the FF coat is much better fit at the collar, and there is something that isn't quite right about the transition from chest to waist on the TR coat. It isn't a fit problem as much as an artistry one, I think. Manton's coat is pretty perfect in all the above ways.
    I wish I had your eye. The only difference I can see between the collars the FF and TR coats is that the FF one lies flatter (in that pic at least) than the TR one, or Manton's. What are you seeing?
    ...Not sure if the trousers are low waisted as cut or whether they were sitting a little lower in the pic due to my failure to adjust them, as I could have pulled them up easily another inch. The waist is about 1/2 inch too big, so it's likely they slipped from my natural waist line prior to the photo. My torso is relatively long compared to my legs, as I have a short inseam. I definitely would not want the inseam to be any longer...
    I was wondering if, instead of raising the pant rise, you could lower the coat button an inch or so. Beautiful suit, btw.
     
  4. Baron

    Baron Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Teddy - I don't mind the trimness of the pants. I was only commenting on the rise, and I do think the suit looks very good on you. As to trouser styling choices, I do think it's possible to have a mid to high rise and a trim silhouette at the same time. I had a vintage 60's suit a few years ago flat front trousers cut just that way - trim through the hips and seat and sitting at my navel. I like that look for suits (less so for odd trousers.) Foo - I accept your explanation that your experience with the suit would lead you to ignore things that were false indicators due to the pose or photo. You could have saved a lot of confusion in this thread if you'd merely stated it that way from the beginning and noted that the crumpled waist in the photo you chose to share wasn't an issue IRL. But then you wouldn't have had yourself a proper [​IMG] thread, so maybe that was the point.
     
  5. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    Need robotic pose for standardized comparisons . . . not too Igor-ish though . . .

    - M


    I have no control over the Igor part.

    [​IMG]

    Inciting Poo to squiggles made my day, though.


    - B
     
  6. edmorel

    edmorel Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    you guys really like long coats.
     
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Foo - I accept your explanation that your experience with the suit would lead you to ignore things that were false indicators due to the pose or photo. You could have saved a lot of confusion in this thread if you'd merely stated it that way from the beginning and noted that the crumpled waist in the photo you chose to share wasn't an issue IRL. But then you wouldn't have had yourself a proper [​IMG] thread, so maybe that was the point.
    I see how sharply the waist is nipped in the original photo--I don't think I ever claimed it appeared otherwise. However, I'm still confused about the rumpling you guys are talking about. I don't see it. Why didn't I previously state anything about my experience versus false indicators? Because these indicators were either not apparent to me (still aren't) or did not strike me as anything worth pointing out, as I obviously did not believe they indicated anything wrong. It's only in hindsight on how this discussion is developed that I am trying to explain what many of you perceive to be hypocrisy or bias. I honestly don't think I would have foofed the suit, had it been someone else's and I hadn't known its origin. This should not come as much of a shock though: when there isn't much to fix in my opinion, I often don't go about foofing at all.
    I have no control over the Igor part. [​IMG] Inciting Poo to squiggles made my day, though.
    The lopsidedness is gone, but do you think the angle of the opening between the quarters looks right? I'm nitpicking, of course. Maybe it's just that the quarters are a tad too open, for my own preferences.
     
  8. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    , the stripes are all perpindicular to the ground despite the open quarters and my own indifference/ignorance.

    You shouldn't have to care about that- you pay your tailor to care about it. It's not stylistic where your input should be needed, it should just be correct.

    On the left, the lines are more or less parallel through the skirt, which is correct. In the middle they scissor, sign of a short front balance, short strap, or similar problem. On the right (I pinned the back) a short back balance, overly long strap, or similar problem. Sometimes it's a combination of things; in any case, when standing with weight distributed evenly to both feet , the lines should be parallel, otherwise it's a sign of trouble.

    (I didn't make this coat, I just had it handy).

    [​IMG]
     
  9. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'll take a pic of me wearing the A&S coat in a maniquen pose this evening so we can (hopefully) clear a part of the controversy. Again, its not exactly what I had wished for - but its not as bad as folks are making it out to be.
     
  10. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'll take a pic of me wearing the A&S coat in a maniquen pose this evening so we can (hopefully) clear a part of the controversy. Again, its not exactly what I had wished for - but its not as bad as folks are making it out to be.
    They aren't accounting for the way you are standing and my horrible impromptu photography. Alas, I am not an artist. Whatever the issue, all I can say is that nothing struck me as wrong in person.
     
  11. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    However, I'm still confused about the rumpling you guys are talking about. I don't see it.

    How is this possible? It manifestly is rumpling. Squiggly lines have been provided. What else can we do?
     
  12. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    Okay, here's a pic to make the check more obvious:

    [​IMG]

    Pattern is straight...quarter is cut across the straight pattern.

    Here's a tiny cute pic of Poo...pattern is straight, quarter is cut across the pattern:

    [​IMG]

    Here's Nay looking natty and swell...

    [​IMG]

    ...but the pattern isn't quite as straight. Looking at the pattern, you would expect the quarters to be more closed. I think that's all Despos and jefferyd are saying...that cut with the pattern makes it seem that is is possible the quarters are open not because they are cut to be that open, but that it is jacket is too small around the hips.

    Is it done on purpose? I don't know, but the first two pics would be the usual way.

    As for the shape of the quarters, well, that is an aspect of style entirely rather than correctness. At least, that is my opinion.


    - B
     
  13. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    If it was just tight in the hips, there would be a diagonal line running from the lower side to the button. If it were just tight in the waist, the pulls would be more horizontal. It doesn't seem to be pulling (much- it may be a shade tight in the waist). ^^That's not a good shot since his posture throws it, but the stairwell shot is fairly neutral.
     
  14. mmkn

    mmkn Senior member

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    [​IMG]
    [click for supersize]


    I have no control over the Igor part.
    [​IMG]


    when standing with weight distributed evenly to both feet,

    I see what is happening here . . .

    Although Edwin accounted for your side of dress with your trousers, he had not accounted for that time of the month when swelling occurs, thus throwing your right leg into a laterally outward rotation in the top photo.

    During these times of the month, it would be impossible to stand, as Jefferyd puts it, with "weight distributed evenly to both feet" . . . more like trying to stand on three legs.

    Tailors and Fitters, take note! [​IMG]

    - M
     
  15. furo

    furo Senior member

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    I have no control over the Igor part.

    [​IMG]

    Inciting Poo to squiggles made my day, though.


    - B


    Are all of your suit jacket sleeves cut so the cuff's openings are parallel with the ground?
     
  16. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Tailors and Fitters, take note! [​IMG]

    - M


    We are taught to account for which side the gentleman "dresses" on.....
     
  17. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    During these times of the month, it would be impossible to stand, as Jefferyd puts it, with "weight distributed evenly to both feet" . . . more like trying to stand on three legs.

    Tailors and Fitters, take note! [​IMG]

    - M


    Maybe I should insert Tampax at different angle...I will check with Edmorel...

    Are all of your suit jacket sleeves cut so the cuff's openings are parallel with the ground?

    I have no idea...my first shirt from Dege will be mailed out to me tomorrow, so when I finally have shirts that fit, I will think about this more...[​IMG]

    - B
     
  18. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    How is this possible? It manifestly is rumpling. Squiggly lines have been provided. What else can we do?

    What squiggly lines? I just say that one pic that h. did, and it did not show rumpling. Are you talking about the fact that the silhouette line of the waist is not perfectly smooth?
     
  19. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    We are taught to account for which side the gentleman "dresses" on.....

    I don't think that will help you here, since many on SF have that piece of equipment out.


    - B
     
  20. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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