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Negotiating Good Car Deals...

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Artisan Fan, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

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  2. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    I think I know where he used to work, but it's been forever since I stepped through their doors.
     
  3. unjung

    unjung Senior member

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    Isn't 9% off list price about standard when negotiating for a car? I wouldn't pay someone else to get that for me.

    I'm a little choked about my last negotiation for a car. I made the mistake of giving details on another car I was looking at. That meant my room for negotiation was between the price of that other car, which I actually didn't really want, and the vehicle I was negotiating on. I think it would have been better to negotiate based on a price of zero, and the dealer's asking price, without bringing another car into the equation.

    The dealer also told me the asking price was one thing and I noticed right after I'd agreed to buy, they publicized the list price on their website and it was a couple points less. I still did alright (about 10%) but I think I could have done better, since it was an American car in the middle of the recession.

    I remember when my dad helped me buy my first car, we got 25% off the asking price. Mind you that was only a thousand bucks.
     
  4. turboman808

    turboman808 Senior member

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    I negotiate by simply walking away if I don't get what I want.

    If it's a place I frequent I won't be such a ball buster. Getting a car built I was a bit annoyed with the close to 30 grand price tag(that was just labor). Guy does good work but still felt I got screwed a bit on the price. Suddenly getting a 5k bill right before he had to pay his employees Christmas bonuses really threw me off. He knocked a few grand off and we were both happy. I plan to use him in the future so I don't want to be a dick to him.

    When I buy my first close to 95 grand car this winter you better believe I am gonna negotiate and squeeze the deal for every penny. In this case I don't need the car and if they don't give me my price I can just walk. Car I want is 95 grand and I want to pay 80 grand. See how close I get. I think I might just get that price in this economy. But in this case I will buy once and thats it. So I feel I can squeeze them a bit more.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    This gent has two big things going for him:

    one - it's not for him so he's objective and impassive. That's important, but more importantly...

    two - he's negotiating by phone. There's a lot less poker playing going on: in person both parties are looking at each other wondering who wants it more. By phone it's strictly business: either you'll meet this number or you won't. Also, by phone - they're not going to park you in a waiting room and eat up your time, making you impatient to get the deal done.
     
  6. Rambo

    Rambo Senior member

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    This gent has two big things going for him: one - it's not for him so he's objective and impassive. That's important, but more importantly... two - he's negotiating by phone. There's a lot less poker playing going on: in person both parties are looking at each other wondering who wants it more. By phone it's strictly business: either you'll meet this number or you won't. Also, by phone - they're not going to park you in a waiting room and eat up your time, making you impatient to get the deal done.
    This. I've helped out several friends buy cars and I always get the deal done before we get there. A few times I've had salesman try and fuck me with add-ons but I usually deal with the manager and settle on my price ahead of time.
     
  7. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Negotiating is one of my skills (and I don't have many [​IMG] ). My #1 rule, when I agree to help someone get a vehicle, is they have to be ready to walk at a nod from me. It's the only way.

    Btw, if you're leasing, know how to work out your lease price with a calculator (simple formula) and do it in front of your salesman. They're so computer dependent these days, it's likely the leasing manager won't even know how to do it by hand! When I got my wife her MB, I kept telling the manager I would not pay the 1k "pack" the leasing software was putting into the price. He kept telling me it wasn't there. I worked through the formula and came up with a $999.99 difference in the cap cost. Told him I'd spot him the penny for rounding error, but I'd be damned if I'd pay the $999.99. He started laughing and admitted I was correct and we did the deal with my numbers.
     
  8. oneeightyseven

    oneeightyseven Senior member

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    Negotiating is one of my skills (and I don't have many [​IMG] ). My #1 rule, when I agree to help someone get a vehicle, is they have to be ready to walk at a nod from me. It's the only way.

    Btw, if you're leasing, know how to work out your lease price with a calculator (simple formula) and do it in front of your salesman. They're so computer dependent these days, it's likely the leasing manager won't even know how to do it by hand! When I got my wife her MB, I kept telling the manager I would not pay the 1k "pack" the leasing software was putting into the price. He kept telling me it wasn't there. I worked through the formula and came up with a $999.99 difference in the cap cost. Told him I'd spot him the penny for rounding error, but I'd be damned if I'd pay the $999.99. He started laughing and admitted I was correct and we did the deal with my numbers.


    want to come to Canada and negotiate for me???? I'm looking to buy a car!
     
  9. DNW

    DNW Senior member

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    want to come to Canada and negotiate for me???? I'm looking to buy a car!
    In this environment, you really don't have to be a negotiating genius to get a good deal. The secret is to do your homework and figure out how much over cost (after rebates, incentives, holdbacks, etc.) you're willing to spend. Get 2-3 dealers to compete with each other. The one that's willing to give you the deal you want, and is convenient for services, you'll buy from. Once you get this best price, then talk about financing. Always have a local bank or credit union in your back pocket. Get your dealer to beat this deal, and they often can. NEVER EVER NEGOTIATE BASED ON MONTHLY PAYMENTS. PERIOD. Once you have the price and the financing terms you wanted, stop. Don't haggle over pennies when you go in to sign the papers, it'll just create unwanted animosity that's not good for you or the dealer. (Yes, there are asshole customers who actually do this shit.) Remember, people like honey more than vinegar. Be nice, but firm, and you'll get what you want without pissing everybody off. Unless, of course, the dealer is an asshole...then you can just fuck with them until the cows come home. Last thought: Yes, the end of the month and model year are the best times to buy.
     
  10. oneeightyseven

    oneeightyseven Senior member

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    Do I necessarily have to finance? Will it give me any room to work with if I'm willing to purchase the vehicle entirely? I posted this earlier and people told me this is not going to get me anywhere, and it hurts my situation.
     
  11. DNW

    DNW Senior member

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    Do I necessarily have to finance? Will it give me any room to work with if I'm willing to purchase the vehicle entirely? I posted this earlier and people told me this is not going to get me anywhere, and it hurts my situation.
    You don't have to finance with any dealer. But, financing gives the dealer a chance to make some extra profit. It shouldn't matter, but in the real world, some dealer might give up more on the front end (i.e. profit on the vehicle) to get some back in the back end (i.e. financing/leasing profit). The profit on the front end depends on the vehicle, with way more markup for used than new ones (waaay more than you'd ever think possible). In the back end, a quarter or half a point over their buy rate is fair, IMO.
     
  12. oneeightyseven

    oneeightyseven Senior member

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    You don't have to finance with any dealer. But, financing gives the dealer a chance to make some extra profit. It shouldn't matter, but in the real world, some dealer might give up more on the front end (i.e. profit on the vehicle) to get some back in the back end (i.e. financing/leasing profit). The profit on the front end depends on the vehicle, with way more markup for used than new ones (waaay more than you'd ever think possible). In the back end, a quarter or half a point over their buy rate is fair, IMO.

    There's a large markup on used vehicles?
     
  13. Rambo

    Rambo Senior member

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    There's a large markup on used vehicles?
    Over what they buy them for, of course. How do you think they make money on them? If you're financing, make sure to get an agreement for outside financing first. This gives you a bargaining point. If you have to stick with dealer financing they've got you by the balls. Its either take this or walk. If you have an outside deal you can use it to bargain the rate and take their negotiating tool off the table.
     
  14. oneeightyseven

    oneeightyseven Senior member

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    I know they get them at a cheaper price, but DarkNWorn led me to believe it is exorbitant.

    Either way, thank you guys for bringing up points I had not previously thought.
     
  15. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Paying cash will not get you a better price. End of story.

    Now, they can make money off financing you. If they can "sell paper" at say, 5%, and finance you at 6%, they get the spread. However, again, no one cares how you pay for it. It won't affect the sale price.

    Whenever you are talking to the F&I (finance and insurance) guy, tell him you just want "the strip note."
     
  16. oneeightyseven

    oneeightyseven Senior member

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    Paying cash will not get you a better price. End of story.

    Now, they can make money off financing you. If they can "sell paper" at say, 5%, and finance you at 6%, they get the spread. However, again, no one cares how you pay for it. It won't affect the sale price.

    Whenever you are talking to the F&I (finance and insurance) guy, tell him you just want "the strip note."


    what does this mean?
     
  17. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    what does this mean?

    No rust, no dust, no croak, no choke.

    Nothing but the the cost of financing the vehicle, with no after market add ons.
     
  18. oneeightyseven

    oneeightyseven Senior member

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    No rust, no dust, no croak, no choke.

    Nothing but the the cost of financing the vehicle, with no after market add ons.


    ahhhh got ya. It kinda sucks because it's going ot be my first car, so I am really going in without any prior knowledge. My mom isn't a negotiator, although my step-father does it for a living. The problem is, I don't want to involve him in my personal business. [​IMG]
     
  19. Joffrey

    Joffrey Senior member

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    Have any friends that have bought a car before or are handy negotiators? Your best bet may be to start over the phone. Look up the prices for cars you are interested in and call dealers up to see what they have to offer. Come in when you narrow it down to a handful you think you could work with.
     
  20. Faded501s

    Faded501s Senior member

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    Do I necessarily have to finance? Will it give me any room to work with if I'm willing to purchase the vehicle entirely? I posted this earlier and people told me this is not going to get me anywhere, and it hurts my situation.

    As has been mentioned before, dealers make money on financing. Unless things have changed since I was in the business 15 or so years ago, Financing is the #1 profit center in a car dealership and Service is #2. Back then the actual sale of a new car resulted in little, if any, profit.

    What you want to do is lead the dealer to believe that you will be financing the car through them...even if you have cash or alternative financing. You might also want to inquire about rustproofing or other add-ons and lead the dealer to believe "oh, that sounds pretty reasonable" and that you're going to get them also. Once you negotiate the price of the car (whether over the phone or whatever) you turn around and tell the dealer that No, you don't want their financing or any of their other BS and well...what are they going to do, renig on the deal?

    And again, as has been mentioned before, dealing at the end of the month, or when a dealer is scrambling to make their quota, will likely result in a better deal. Realize that dealers' profit is not necessarily related to how close to sticker price they sell cars...there are many manufacturer quotas, discounts and incentives involved.

    The year end model closeout argument is a fallacy in terms of resale value. Generally, if you are only going to keep a car for 5 years or less you want to get a new model as soon as it hits the showroom floor. Think about getting a 2010 model today versus a 2009 model being closed out this January...the perception will always be that the '09 is older and less desirable. Very broad stroke there but (hopefully) you see the point.
     

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