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Neckties: A Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. DiplomaticTies

    DiplomaticTies Senior member

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    You've already received some good suggestions and if you can communicate directly with Mr Cappelli that would be best of course. My two cents if you want a dressier foulard is:


    5-fold
    Self-tipped
    8,5 cm
    Light lining

    Light lining because Cappelli can sometimes go a little heavy on the lining. But since it's self-tipped and 5-fold it will still be dressy.
     
  2. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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  3. DiplomaticTies

    DiplomaticTies Senior member

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    Wow! I love that its technical but at the same time extremely arcane. Like buying a jet plane but only driving it on country roads.
     
  4. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    Technical and arcane go hand in hand. I like your analogy though. More such unreasonable combinations should be pursued.

    The ASCII rendering is quite good, try it if you've tired of regular porn! Kind of has that vibe of flicking through pay-per-view channels on analog television and getting those wavy psychedelic lines and the occasional boob, although much more hi fidelity.
     
  5. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Diplomatic Ties,

    There are always regional trends around the world so I interested to hear that Drakes has been an influence in Sweden - thank you for letting me know. I know that without reading SF I would perhaps not know who Drakes are as they are not well known in America. But I do know that they have some great classic designs.

    Beautiful knots is a personal thought and I respect your point of view.

    "...they have special fabrics made for just them."

    Making special fabrics is very normal and is a big part of the famous brands claim to fame - so I am sure it is true. As for the fabric making the knot it is like a recipe the silk and interlining are mixed with construction so not just the fabric.

    "My appreciation for Kiton has a lot to do with consistency. So far I haven't found any ties from Kiton that were not perfectly made. The same goes for Marinella. In other cases quality may vary. Cappelli is an example of this. Usually very good, but sometimes not."

    You are so correct that quality control is very important. I really don't know what causes Cappelli to have mixed results. If I ever met him I would suggest getting rid of any outside tie makers and staying with his in house staff. But with two small children and two large dogs and a growing business I don't see myself traveling soon.

    "What would be a signature Hober tie?"

    I believe in trusting your first thoughts and then confirming with swatches.

    I was told a story by a diplomat yesterday that you might enjoy:

    He was at a party for a Thai ambassador in Europe and as he shook his hands the ambassador smiled when looking at his tie - it was a Thai mudmee silk that we had made for him last year which included the blue of the queen of Thailand.

    Mudmee silk is made by hand dyeing silk before weaving in a complex process then the silk is hand woven.
     
  6. DiplomaticTies

    DiplomaticTies Senior member

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    Interesting, I was actually just looking at your Mudmee ties on your website. I was based in Singapore some years ago and visited Thailand on a fairly regular basis. I'm just wondering if the sheen of the Mudmee comes over too strongly in a tie. Swatches is probably the answer then.
     
  7. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Thai shot silk is often very bright but mudmee is not so bright sometimes very dark.

    Swatches is always a good idea.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Count de Monet

    Count de Monet Senior member

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    Funny you should mention this. I'm hardly OCD (one look at my desk or the inside of my vehicle would confirm this) but the symmetry described above is important enough to me to pass on an otherwise great tie if it doesn't have it. Whether by chance or not, every Hober tie I've received with a pattern is perfectly symmetrical along the long axis, i.e. the bottom most dot or "flower" or whatever is centered directly above the tip of the front blade, just like the #1 bowling pin. Further, not only is it centered, no portion of it disappears below the point. It is a little thing but I appreciate it. As noted, someone took a little extra time to line it up.
     
  9. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    ^ definitely not by chance, knowing David from his comments alone in this thread. Yeah, it's a little thing to appreciate. I didn't ask for it in the tie, but someone care enough to do it.
     
  10. Academic2

    Academic2 Senior member

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    For me the broader point is that if there's sloppiness in what you can see there might be something even worse in what you can’t—it raises doubts, in short.

    Cheers,

    Ac
     
  11. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    Pet peeve: foulard ties where the rosettes actually look like flowers and not abstract geometric shapes. Anyone else have this?
    I don't like shapes that reference other things, feels too Hermes like to me.
     
  12. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    @ Diplomatic ties @ Hober

    Charvet as you say: machine made shirts very mediocre that do not justify a 600 euros tag. Ties: on the league of Armani, Dolce, etc: poor
    Based on the facts they tag on 600, a Neapolitan shirt with 16 hand passages should cost 3000e and a real tie 800.


    Capelli rtw leaves a lot to be desired ( made alleguedl by the Liba machine on low quality, mass market third parties is well said on the Neapolitan industry,priced as made by hand)

    Capelli bespoke are done at the real high standards it should be.

    Even was a comparation on other forum with 3 ties, Capelli rtw ( got bad points) Capelli bespoke ( got high points) and other mine ( sorry) got higher points over the last ( sorry to say, do not pretend to be narcissistic), I would have prefered this comparation had Kiton instead of mines.

    Kiton is way better than Capelli for a technical reason that I can reveal on private.

    Here are people who is confussing others (as always on that kind of posters) with low knowledge: post #1469 and then my proper answer.

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/289105/e-g-cappelli-store-now-live/1470


    You won´t ever find a defective garment from Kiton because their quality control is of other world ( friends working on that task as well) You might like the product or not, but won´t ever be put on the market if is not well revised.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  13. flvinny521

    flvinny521 Senior member

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    3 people like this.
  14. suitntieguy

    suitntieguy Senior member

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    I agree with Your comments on Charvet. I have never been impressed by one of their ties. I own many Kiton and many cappelli. The kitons feel nicer but they loose their shape, lining twists and unfold representing consistent problems I have with them. You have me wondering if there is indeed a difference between the outlet ties I have purchased from Cappelli versus the custom orders. I have good and great borrellis. Same with Marinella. I have a couple 7 fold Tom fords that are up there with best. A suprising gem was finamore. Re: Brioni - no comparison to the Neapolitan makers but they are miles above the fashion houses such as Versace, Gucci, etc. Lastly, I have come to appreciate my Sam Hober ties as much as if not more than any other tie I own.
     
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  15. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    Losing the shape is not a problem of Kiton or the maker, is the side effect (as I explained on an long post explaining the differences on kind of ties and construction on this same thread) of the multifold tie. It will happen also on the rest of makers. Some tie might hold the shape more than others, but should be for the silk itself, not for the making.

    In Naples there is a service of represing and reshaping ties, I have done it myself on a factory, even changing old interlinings etc, refurbishing decades ago ties etc.

    Most of those Neapolitan brands come from the same tie factory...
     
  16. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Suitntieguy,

    Thank you for your kind words.

    TweedyProf has a lot of experience with Cappelli ties so I am going to lean in his direction as to why some are better than others. Maybe readymade vs custom made?

    Patrizo sounds very friendly and like someone that you can talk to and as long as you get his custom made ties (I think? - smiling) you will be fine and get a better value than the name brands - unless they have a design that you really like.

    I still would enjoy meeting him and have a coffee with him one day if he ever travels in the north of Thailand.

    "Losing the shape is not a problem of Kiton or the maker, is the side effect (as I explained on an long post explaining the differences on kind of ties and construction on this same thread) of the multifold tie. It will happen also on the rest of makers. Some tie might hold the shape more than others, but should be for the silk itself, not for the making."

    Sartodi Napoli,

    Perhaps there is a translation issue in your post because based on the experience of growing up in a fashion business family and having made thousands of custom made ties over the years, I can tell you that lined ties with proper care, as a general rule should not lose their body or shape - assuming a good interlining wool and slow tie making with attention to detail and quality control.

    The number of folds is not an issue.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. cezinho

    cezinho Senior member

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    Hello all, I started last year building my tie rotation and have at the moment around 20 ties and would like to be at max 50 ( hopefully), however realised I still don't have a navy tie (plain).
    What would be the texture and fabric that you would consider to be more "wearable"?

    I have these one but of course it's not plain navy
    [​IMG]

    Thanks
     
  18. madeinpoland

    madeinpoland Member

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    Take a #A6 repp twill from Cappelli. Looks great.

    A grenadine grossa would be the more natural choice for a versatile tie (so says Simon C.), but grenadine looks kinda dorky nowadays.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    Amen brutha
    Damned peak grenadine
    Damn the hipsters all to hell
     
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  20. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    C, depends on a few factors determined by your wardrobe. I get the sense you mostly have sport coats? Solid Blazers like above or patterns?

    Rather than a grossa, whose weave pattern I no longer like, I'd suggest a pointed navy knit, 7.5-8cm width. You can decide how crunchy you want it but I think it will serve you well in lots of contexts, assuming I'm right about your wardrobe. You can choose materials based on seasons but silk should be fine.

    If you want something a bit dressier then fina weave as in the above Cappelli tie. You're comfortable with that weave and imo it's fine with solid city blazers and appropriate with suits. Silk twill more formal relative to others.

    Personally, I would prefer raw silk for warm days and a a very fine herringbone wool solid for cold days, something whose pattern is barely discernible close up.
     

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