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Neckties: A Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    Does anyone in the USA want to go in on a Drakes sale order with me? I only want to purchase one tie, but I still face a ridiculous $30 shipping fee for a 4 oz tie. Just pisses me off that they charge that much. The tie I want is $85 with the VAT discount, an okay price, but it goes up to $115 with the shipping... a lot for a non bespoke tie. (Cappelli price = $115ish)

    If I can get the order up to 200 sterling, I get free shipping. Then I could ship in USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelopes for $5 each...

    Lots of great ties here

    https://www.drakes.com/sale


    Thinking I will have to move fast on this Drakes order... don't want my tie to sell out.

    Get at me quickly if you want in!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  2. raindog

    raindog Well-Known Member

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    They both look absolutely lovely, especially the printed wool. At 55$ per piece it was a a great buy, congratulations.

    I still haven't pulled the trigger on my new tie order... What do you think about the idea of a solid purple shantung 7-fold, or lined six-fold?
     
  3. Jay Suave

    Jay Suave Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking to place an order next Tuesday, however I'm on the West coast PM for more details
     
  4. smerf

    smerf Well-Known Member

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    Drake do nice ties but I just feel they're really overpriced, especially as one of the members here said that they're non bespoke :/ Not worth the cash imo
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  5. dazedstate

    dazedstate Senior member

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    I'm more partial to subdued hues of purple like wine,but that sounds adventurous.
     
  6. raindog

    raindog Well-Known Member

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    I'm going through a "purple tie" phase, apparently. I recently realised how versatile purple can be, but - alas - I only have one cheap purple tie (that I bought just to give the color a chance) and now I'm looking for something a little bit more fancy. I'm kind of hesitating between grenadine (grossa?) and shantung.

    I appreciate Mr. Hober's comments on durability and the risk of unlined ties loosing their shape, and I will take them into account, but in fact my collection of ties is so large (given my limited needs, as I oftentimes work from home) that my most worn ties get perhaps 10-15 days of wear per year, so durability is not my no. 1 concern.
     
  7. smerf

    smerf Well-Known Member

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    Were you considering a purple silk tie at all? If not, then may I know why? :) ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  8. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I think you have the answer - you are perhaps making a tight knot.

    But normally the tightness won't be a big problem except maybe with a loose wear such as a grenadine then the problem tends to be abrasion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    Hi Gents,
    Am new to this thread but have enjoyed it tremendously.
    I am aware that this is a newbie question, but in general, what are the rules when it comes to your tie knots? What knots are preferred for what collars / ties? When is a slimmer / bulkier knot desirable?
    Also, when a tie is removed, is it better to pull out the narrow blade from the knot or "untie" the tie (ie, reverse the order in which the knot was made)? Does the former cause more "harm" to the tie's internal structure than the latter?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  10. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Thunder March,

    Reverse when removing your tie.

    Grenadines are best with a FIH knot only because Windsor type knots etc tend to make too large of a knot with a grenadine weave - you can make a tight knot but this may shorten the ties life due to abrasion.

    There are no rules on knots and ties - wear what you like.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    Thank you David, for your answer.
    I hope that one day, I will own one of your ties.

    Out of curiosity, I have a couple of questions of a more "technical" nature, sorry to bring up something that was discussed a week ago.
    You were discussing with some other forum members, points pertaining to raw silk and wild silk.
    Based on what I remember, raw silk refers to silk with the natural coating intact, and wild silk refers to silk where the moth breaks the coccoon and thus making the silk only suitable for being spun and not woven (thus a lower quality silk).

    Both raw silk and wild silk appear to have a slubby nature, but I am assuming (correct me if I'm wrong), that raw silk can mostly be woven (and thus not be of lower quality as wild silk is?)
    So does this follow that raw silk would be more favorable a material to use, to achieve that effect?
    I'm also curious to know, what is this "natural coating" and why it is normally removed. Is it to attain the "sheen" that silk is typically associated with?

    Lastly, in terms of process, why is weaving regarded as superior to spinning? Is it because the individual silk threads / fibres are continuous instead of being broken by the moth?

    Once again, thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  12. raindog

    raindog Well-Known Member

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    Well, as far as my understanding goes, both grenadine and shantung are silk fabrics... but I imagine you are asking about "regular" silk fabrics, like silk twill or satin.
    I'm not considering those for this particular order, because I already have one purple twill tie. It is of rather poor quality, as I bought it mostly for experiments (to know if it works for me and with my wardrobe - I loved the result of these experiments, really, grey+purple or navy/blue+purple are both great combinations). Secondly, a vast majority of my ties are "regular" silks, and while I really enjoy some of them (mostly for their prints or other funny patterns, like small woven animals), I'm now looking mostly for those less usual fabrics. For example, I only have one shantung. So this year I'm buying mostly shantung, grenadines, wool, and silk blends, unless I find some stunning printed silk.

    Other than that, I have nothing against regular silk and would like to try a printed silk 7-fold one day!
     
  13. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Thunder March,

    "Based on what I remember, raw silk refers to silk with the natural coating intact,"


    Yes, although on occasion some silk mills will remove silk - weave and or print and then put the sericin back on the silk either partially or in the same amount as was natural.

    "and wild silk refers to silk where the moth breaks the coccoon and thus making the silk only suitable for being spun and not woven (thus a lower quality silk)."

    Wild silk is silk that is not domesticated. But yes, what you describe is normally correct.

    "Both raw silk and wild silk appear to have a slubby nature, but I am assuming (correct me if I'm wrong), that raw silk can mostly be woven (and thus not be of lower quality as wild silk is?)"

    Raw silk is not slubby because it is raw silk if it is slubby it is because of the yarn quality.

    All silk can normally be woven.

    Sericin is the natural gum and the silk has a more shiny look when it is removed. as a side note it is a very interesting material and science is constantly finding new uses for it.

    "Lastly, in terms of process, why is weaving regarded as superior to spinning? Is it because the individual silk threads / fibres are continuous instead of being broken by the moth?"

    You mixing up the terms. Reeled silk is higher quality than spun silk and more expensive. Both silks are woven.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  14. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Raindog,

    "Well, as far as my understanding goes, both grenadine and shantung are silk fabrics... but I imagine you are asking about "regular" silk fabrics, like silk twill or satin."

    No grenadine is a weave which is often made with pure silk but not always for example we use a very beautiful cashmere/silk grenadine to make ties as well as pure silk grenadine.

    Shantung is traditionally woven in Shantung from wild silk and I doubt that more than a small percentage of what is marketed as Shantung is really Shantung. I have heard that Shantung from Shantung is not always silk these days but I have not been to Shantung so I can't say for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
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  15. raindog

    raindog Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the clarification Mr. Hober. Indeed, I have never seen other grenadine than 100% silk, hence my assumption.

    Anyway, for my next tie order I'm only considering 100% silk fabrics/weaves.
     
  16. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    You are right, this is an average to mediocre tie whose right price is 50 or even less, but over 200 for a 3 fold machinemade is way overpriced.
     
  17. Darkside

    Darkside Senior member

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    Can you elaborate for the less informed members on the reasons why this is "average to mediocre?"
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  18. dazedstate

    dazedstate Senior member

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    Because it's not hand made by @SartodiNapoli. [​IMG]

    In all seriousness though, I don't think anyone is fooling themselves into thinking that these are made by hand by craftsman like SartodiNapoli or @Sam Hober. The tie is obviously machine sewn. I was commenting on materials used (wool fabric, interlining) and aesthetic quality only.

    Not all of us can afford a closet full of bespoke ties and these seem nice for the price to me. Especially compared with some of the high priced name brands that are also machine made.
     
  19. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Those seem like a decent pick up a $55 each. When you tie them, can you post a picture here? I'm curious about how well Battisti knot.
     
  20. smerf

    smerf Well-Known Member

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    Hi ThunderMarch,

    I'm gonna be a bit conservative here: only the four in hand - it always works and you can do so much with it. I never use the windsor because it just looks too triangular. The four in hand is more practical and something that you can't go wrong with ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
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