1. Styleforum Gives - Holiday Charity Auction 8: A Bespoke Coat from David Reeves

    We are very proud to present this year's edition of the Styleforum Holiday Charity Auctions, this year in support of the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Spokane (www.rmhcspokane.org). Each Auction lasts 24 hours. Please follow and bid on all the auctions.

    The 6th auction of the year is for a Bespoke Coat from David Reeves. Please bid often and generously here

    Fok and the Styleforum Team.

    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Neckties: A Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Sep 15, 2015.

Tags:
  1. Academic2

    Academic2 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,947
    Likes Received:
    4,268
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Does anyone have a photo of a woven patterned tie that doesn’t have the elements of the pattern in raised relief? I never thought about it before, but as I do now I don’t think I own such a tie myself.

    I’ve got a few of the sort we’ve been talking about, however. Here’s a close-up of one. The background is horizontally ribbed with thicker weft and finer warp while the elements of the pattern are diagonal.

    [​IMG]


    The effect is almost like embroidery or brocade.

    I don’t necessarily think of them as cheaper (in either sense of the word) as much as I think of them as ‘louder’. I haven't worn any of mine for a few years now, probably for that reason.

    Cheers,

    Ac
     


  2. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,769
    Likes Received:
    6,808
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Very informative. So, is it safe to conclude that technically speaking, any tie that is made on a loom with a jacquard device can be called a jacquard tie, but that when used in the vernacular 'jacquard' means a tie where the pattern is woven in as opposed to printed?

    Anyway, this thread needs more pics. My only two jacquard ties:

    [​IMG]

    The back may be interesting:

    [​IMG]


    Edit: found another one, though I'm not sure this qualifies for what is commonly called a jacquard tie, though clearly its pattern is woven:

    [​IMG]

    Ac2, is this what you mean with a pattern that doesn't have a raised relief?

    By the way, I believe @Cleav had some special order Capelli jacquards done recently. Looked very tasteful.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  3. Academic2

    Academic2 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,947
    Likes Received:
    4,268
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    I can't quite tell without greater magnification—and 'raised' in the sense that Claghorn ("I think this is what I always thought of. Raised florets or patterns") and I have used the term is of course a matter of degree.

    Let's put it this way, if you close your eyes and run your fingers over it, can you feel the difference between the figure and the ground?

    Cheers,

    Ac
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  4. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    2,734
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2012

    Sorry, C, was on a trip to Florida. I don't think I've taken in everything, but it seems to me that technically "jacquard" as applied to ties should mean, woven on a jacquard loom. If grenadines are jacquards, then patterns aren't necessary for jacquards! It's not even clear that jacquard must yield patterns that are raised. No jacquards are printed, however. .

    Then there's industry/sales person use of "jacquard" which seems to be all over the place. I say that we drop it as a description of pattern of tie except for an imprecise way to refer to woven ties (some of which are not jacquards in the technical sense).

    So, let's drop talk of jacquards as a clear category? Thus, neats, medallions, printed, wovens, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  5. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,307
    Likes Received:
    276
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Location:
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    

    Yes.

    One additional thought:

    Printed silks (often twills) can be woven on a jacquard loom before being printed on.

    This further shows that technically jacquards are a very large group of fabrics - very large...

    Voltaire once said:

    I may detest what you have to say but I will die for your right to say it - perhaps slightly exaggerated for this issue but you gentlemen get the idea.

    For the historians out there something very interesting
    :http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/
     


  6. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,769
    Likes Received:
    6,808
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    

    The surface is flat. There's only one shade of blue, but the blocks are rotated 90 degrees, so light reflects slightly different from them. The effect is much more subtle irl, almost a uniform blue with white dots.

    @TweedyProf if we drop jacquard as a category, on to the next problematic definition: neats. When is a tie a neat?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  7. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    10,161
    Likes Received:
    21,854
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    A tie with a discernible, repeating printed pattern of shapes, one or several.
     


  8. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,769
    Likes Received:
    6,808
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    

    Now there's a definition! I believe a certain level of soporificness is also a requirement, or not necessarily?
    And does it have to be a print?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  9. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    10,161
    Likes Received:
    21,854
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    I don't think soporificitude is a requirement. This is certainly a neat, but it is also certainly not soporific:

    [​IMG]

    ---

    As far as being printed. Well. That's definitely up for discussion. I don't like the idea of extending "neat" to woven patterns, but if someone argued for "printed neat" and "woven [jacquard] neat," I probably wouldn't be able to muster up much of a defense.
     


  10. sprout2

    sprout2 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    1,816
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Location:
    Mom's basement
    [​IMG]

    We say "neat print" for a reason -- "neat" is weave agnostic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  11. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,769
    Likes Received:
    6,808
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    ^ Wow. That's a great tie. Capelli?
    This is one of my favourite ties, but I thought the pattern is too busy to be classified as a neat:

    [​IMG]

    Though I wouldn't know what else to call it...
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  12. sprout2

    sprout2 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    1,816
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Location:
    Mom's basement
    The bow tie? Yeah its Cappelli.
    Cucito per Cappelli for Willy Wonka
     


  13. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    10,161
    Likes Received:
    21,854
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    The orange? Henry Carter

    I definitely wouldn't consider the tie on the left a neat. Patterned, yes, but not with repeated shapes (but rather repeated lines...we wouldn't call a striped tie a neat, right?).

    Dotted ties, printed or woven, I don't know. If someone wanted to say they weren't neats, that's fine by me (especially as "dotted ties" is certainly a category). If someone wanted to say that printed dots were neats, I also probably wouldn't object. If someone wanted to say printed and woven dots were neat, I'd object, but I probably wouldn't have good reason to (and would be objecting more to the woven element of the statement than the dotted).

    Oh, you changed the picture. I'd consider that a neat, and a handsome one at that (the new picture). Maker? Could you put the original picture up too?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  14. sprout2

    sprout2 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    1,816
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Location:
    Mom's basement
    Eliod's second pic is awesome. I want that tie.
     


  15. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,769
    Likes Received:
    6,808
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    



    I dunno where the original picture came from, it certainly wasn't mine. Weird. Anyway, the second one is from Sorella Fontana in Rome.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by