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Neckties: A Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    Looks "jacquard" to me. And we should find a new term...I can feel David wince every time we say it.

    @TweedyProf, thoughts?
     


  2. MrTRC

    MrTRC Senior Member

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    I find the forum's disdain for 'jacquard' ties (synonym for 'shiny and woven akin to scaly-fish-skin') amusing especially when silk twill does NOT invoke the same disdain. They are not a mainstay in my tie wardrobe as my tastes are more aligned to matte neckties but nothing wrong with a good jacquard.

    I don't care for 'jacquard' shirts though (again: see synonym).
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  3. gdl203

    gdl203 Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Well that was a lot of posts for a pretty basic distinction between printed and wovens. Jacquard/woven ties have the design (flower, stripe, whatever) woven into the fabric (different color threads) while prints have the designs, well, printed.

    Some style cultures prefer prints (US, Naples) whereas others favor jacquard (Japan, Milan, city of London, France). Opinions, as always, tend to turn hyperbolic on SF but there are good and bad ties in both camps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  4. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    And yet people--not just SF--appear to use jacquard to refer to certain types of woven ties. For whatever reason. It's just on SF there seems to be a general distaste for them. Again, for whatever reason.

    This is labelled by Drakes as jacquard. It would probably also be classified as such by the maybe vernacular use of the term.
    [​IMG]

    These are not classified as such. And I can't tell if they were made on a jacquard loom.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Though I'd hazard that the last would fall into the vernacular use.

    So I don't know:
    - if the vernacular use actually exists
    - if the vernacular use has any sort of consistent application
    - if Drakes is labeling all jacquard (non-vernacular) ties as jacquard or only some of them
    - if Drakes is then labeling by the vernacular (assuming it exists and it is consistent)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  5. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Distinguished Member

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    I've had the impression that the distinction made on SF was not between woven and printed but between woven with the design element in the same plane as the base and woven with the design element raised from the base. The innovation of the jacquard loom was, as Sprout2 pointed out, to allow weaving on the Z axis. Of course I might have misunderstood!
     


  6. Academic2

    Academic2 Distinguished Member

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    I understand the distinction between printed and woven patterns, but is there a name for that subset of woven-pattern ties where the foreground elements are raised above the background, in relief?

    Cheers,

    Ac

    Edit: Mr. Six and I posted at almost the same second. ^
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  7. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    I think this is what I always thought of. Raised florets or patterns. And they often seem a bit cheap (just because jacquard is so much more common than print). I've seen plenty that don't look cheap though

    Though that's another interesting question: is it cheaper to weave a pattern than to print it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  8. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

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    A jacquard loom looks like a pretty complex and expensive piece of machinery. An ink jet printer must be a lot cheaper. ;)
    Old school block printing is probably expensive because of high manual labour costs.
     


  9. Academic2

    Academic2 Distinguished Member

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  10. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

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    Thank you sir.
     


  11. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    1 and 4 look like jacquard weaves, 2 and 3 like twill weaves.

    My main objections to most jacquard ties are that they tend to be shiny, and the raised elements are susceptible to snags. But I don't think either characteristic is inherent to the category. I have a few that I quite like.
     


  12. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    Then is it just me that sees jacquard A LOT more often than prints in stores?
     


  13. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

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    It seems plausible that the higher investment needed for jacquard type ties would have to be offset by higher production volumes. Printing lends itself more to lower volume production. But this is pure conjecture. It may well be that outside the tiny SF bubble, printed ties are seen as less desirable than woven ones.
     


  14. conradwu

    conradwu Affiliate Vendor

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    Jacquards are just devices added to an existing loom that allows for it to weave out complex patterns. Basically an add on/upgrade. I suspect all modern mills have jacquard technology and would just use it to weave everything and anything because of how efficient it is, meaning they can still weave out simple solids and striped patterns.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015


  15. conradwu

    conradwu Affiliate Vendor

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    btw all grenadines are jacquards
     


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