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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. ballmouse

    ballmouse Senior member

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    Kyle Lowry has been the only thing stopping the Bulls from blowing this game open in the 4th. Hope there will be a few gifs of his baskets on the web after the game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  2. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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  3. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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  4. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    even tho the pistons stretched josh smith that movie still counts on their cap. the hit is stretched over 5 years (2*#yrsleft+1).

    so the set-off:

    so josh smith is making $13.5M this year and the 1-year vet min this year is $816k.

    apparently the rockets are one of the few teams who can offer more than the 11-year vet min ($1.45M). They got the biannual player exception left over, which is $2.077M. so if they sign him, the pistons would have to pay 13.5-([2.077-1.45]/2) = $13.19M. Smith would get paid the $2.077M from Houston plus this $13.19M from Detroit = $15.26M

    the Heat can also sign him using the Disabled Player Exception they just got for McBob going down. that's 50% of either the disabled player's salary or the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. mcbob signed for the midlevel, so this is the same: $2.6525M. 13.5-(2.6525-1.45)/2 = $15.55M

    basically everybody else competitive can only offer the minimum. i think that even goes for the kings.

    i have no idea how the set-off works once the 1-year contract he signs this year expires and he signs a bigger one next year.

    source: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm, #65-ish

    i wonder if he's going to want a starting role. a place like the clippers makes a crazy amount of sense, but he'd obviously be a bench player there. the mavs want him, but he screws up their O more than rondo already has, and he would have to come off the bench there too. you can see why the heat would want him. the rockets makes some sense, but are they giving up on terrence jones/motiejunas? they aren't average starters yet, but they've been probably comparable to what josh smith has done in detroit, and they're way younger and cheaper.

    disclaimer: my math above may be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  5. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    oh it counts against the cap, but they're stretching out over 5 years instead of 2

    good explanation


    so basically josh smith is going to make like an extra $2 million because he's so fucking bad but not so bad nobody wants him

    gg
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  6. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    With the Clips, they could actually put him in place of Barnes in the starting 5 since he can pretty much play a 3 or a 4 or even a 5 against smaller centers. Even though the Clips are desperate for bench scoring, Barnes is still better than Bullock or Hedo on both ends of the court and it also preserves him for some playoff time. Doc can also rotate his line-up better, start Smoove at 3 then sit him earlier (within 5 minutes) and then bring him back in with the subs at the beginning of the second and that provides a much needed post offense and still be a defensive asset with the second stringers. He also do not need to chuck up 3s because the Clips have enough scoring power outside, they could use his presence on the inside especially with Griffin out and Hawes being out.

    I think it is a good fit for him since he is pretty versatile with the position.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  7. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    oh shit look how far ross jumped out from:

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]


    yup! another instance of why you don't give a great coach gm responsibilities (flip, isaiah, doc, now stan the man). leave that to gods like pop and belichick.


    bruh have you not heard about him playing the 3 in detroit...
    it did not go well.
    they cut the guy.

    good luck playing offense w/ jordan's and josh smith's men both totally ignoring them to double paul and griffin in the post. 100% unworkable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  8. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    Smoove has never NEEDED to chuck up 3's. He's just too hard headed to stop. Yes, this is somewhat exacerbated by Detroit playing him with Drummond and Monroe, but it was the same way in Atlanta. It was so bad it became a meme amongst the media covering the Hawks, and I think his hard headedness is why they weren't all that upset to see him go.

    It's really too bad because he's a beast of a power forward that blocks and rebounds as well as anyone, and can handle, get to the rim, and finish. He just has no business being a perimeter player

    There's no way a guy like him could be straight up cut without something going down. I suspect SVG told him to cut that shit out or I'll cut you, and he didn't think the guy was serious. Or some blowup happened behind closed doors
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  9. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    I have two takeaways from these gifs

    1. manu has the perfect old man game
    2. Deandre got faked out of his jock and he still recovered enough to make the second shot really difficult
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    This seems the most likely. He seems like a pain in the ass.
     
  11. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Yes I do know! But just because he was a terrible 3 at Detroit doesn't mean he will be a terrible 3 anywhere else. I mean have you seen Detroit play?

    100% unworkable? I guess you completely ignored my post of him going out early and returning with the bench? That is completely impossible, right? Josh doesn't provide a good defensive length at the 3? No way Doc can make him work? No way would he fit perfectly with Clips quick and running transition offense?

    It's all about the system and how Doc can integrate him in it. Won't help that Woodson is Docs assistant, who Smith played under during the best time of his career?

    And yeah, let def ignore Smith and Jordan and allow them to catch every lobs thrown at the rim from CP3 or Blake.


    And yeah, doesn't matter that most analyst feel he will work best with the Clips right and that the Clips could really, really use him?

    Doesn't make sense why Clips feel he could be of help either, right? They just want to throw money on a dude who can't help them?







    And what the hell has Doc done that is so bad? Overall his moves have been good. You're acting like the Clips aren't championship contenders at all. If it weren't for the drama last year and CP3s flops backfiring (neither Docs fault), they could have been int he Finals last year. You can't blame him for Collison moving, he wanted more money and to be a starter. You can't blame Bledsoe from leaving, he was going to demand more money and wanted to be a starter.
     
  12. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    yeah man, i watched detroit play a bunch last year. he was terrible there, and he's apparently worse this year (i haven't watched this year).

    lol at your histrionics. i suppose i should have said "imo" somewhere in my post. i just happen to disagree w/ you and the guy you quoted and didn't credit.

    this is somewhat like the rondo situation, where he was a lot worse the past two years than earlier on, but josh smith was bad at defense during his time in detroit. he was really really great at defense in atlanta, but he has been below-average in detroit, so we don't know if that's due to his decline or the team itself. but given that he was an interior defender in atl, i'd say that there's a lot less evidence he's be a great 3 defender than evidence for it.

    i maintain that playing offense w/ smith and deandre jordan would be unworkable, so that means that you're wasting the 1st 5 minutes of every game and crunchtime, or you're just sitting josh smith at crunch time. i hope you realize that starting kendrick perkins for so long is 50% of what everyone complained about scott brooks, so it doesn't really make any sense to throw that time away to an offense that doesn't work. i'm sure they would get some alleyoops out of it, and cp3 and blake are great great passers, but can't you see how that would obliterate everyone's spacing? allow for people to double-team blake with impunity? allow for exponentially more help on paul drives? force blake's game further out from the post to the midrange even more? no one's leaving redick, crawford, or barnes open when jordan and smith are on the court.

    look, it mainly comes down to what kind of role he'd be willing to play. you're right, he's obviously tons better than hedo or big baby. he can absolutely take their minutes and improve the team. i don't know if he's willing to just do that, though. if he's willing to come off the bench and take a bit less money, he'd be just what their team needed, if he still has the athleticism.
     
  13. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    hmm really? it's pretty well-known doc hasn't done a good job. he hasn't done a horrible one, but certainly not good. he has certainly held the organization together through a lot, and that's wonderful, but i'm just talking about his transactions.

    here's what he's done since he got there (let me know if i forgot something, the cbs sports and espn pages notably miss some things):

    • trade bledsoe/caron butler and a 2nd-rounder for redick and dudley. it's pretty obvious now that bledsoe was by far the best player in that trade. that's poor value. maybe they could have done better if they'd just started bled at the 2 and really shown how good he is. either way you can't say this was a good deal.
    • resign chris paul. great job.
    • resign matt barnes. this is a good deal.
    • sign byron mullens as an FA. he was horrendous. traded him and a 2nd-round pick to PHI to dump him.
    • sign reggie bullock. this isn't bad.
    • sign stephen jackson. waived him after literally less than a month.
    • sign sasha vujacic to a 10-day.
    • sign danny granger. he didn't make an impact, then i think he got injured?
    • sign hedo turkoglu. he has been hilarious, but not a useful player.
    • sign big baby. he has not been good.
    • let collison walk. i don't really like collison so i thought this was fine.
    • sign jordan farmar to a 2-year $4.2M deal. i haven't watched the clips enough to tell if he's doing okay, but he's shooting 38%, not assisting a lot, and his +/- is bad. when this happened, analysts met it with general confusion.
    • sign spencer hawes to a 4-year midlevel deal. he's made no impact this year. he may step it up, but they're on the hook for 3 more years and $17M. this deal was somewhat lauded when it happened? can't remember.
    • trade dudley and a 1st for delfino, raduljica, and their own 2nd rounder. delfino and raduljica were both waived. again, a poor dump. dudley has played adequately both before and after he was on the clippers, but not during. that's dudley's fault, but then they sold as low as possible on him, and gave away a real asset.
    • sign cdr and epke udoh. shrug? decent end of the bench guys?


    it's pretty clear that doc has a type, and that type is players who were okay in 2011.

    i don't think you can look at that list and say that his moves overall have been anywhere near good. he forced himself onto a team w/ two superstars, and he hasn't added much. his big moves were trading bled for redick/dudley, resigning chris paul, resigning matt barnes, signing farmar and hawes, and trading dudley and a 1st for nothing. i like matt barnes a lot as value, but he didn't need to be gm to sign paul, and the other moves have either been average or disasters. a lot of the older guys he's signed haven't had a lot of negative impact, but if you sign them, there's the opportunity cost of not checking out younger guys with any upside left over. he's done a lot of that.

    anyway it's not a secret that doc hasn't been a good gm. you can google it easily. they're chip contenders, he hasn't wrecked the team, but his work as gm, as opposed to that as coach, has not helped them towards that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  14. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Wait how is Smith wasted on crunch time? Dude isn't going to come to the Clips to be the superstar, he isn't going to be the first 4 to 5 option to take a shot or make a play to win a game. :lol: That's not why these teams are after him. But when they need a defensive stop, I still think he is better than Barnes is right now especially guarding taller and faster SF/PF.

    Coming into any team that is contending will not have him play having the biggest role. While he isn't going to be in a minor role either, he isn't exactly going to be taking those last minute heaves from beyond the arc in any of the teams interested in him.

    He is coming in as a role player for the most part and that is what I am saying he will be and work as with the Clips. If Docs sees that he isn't going to be that type of player, then they simply would not go after him. Even when Doc was first asked, he just said "we'll talk to him" and "we'll evaluate why he was let go", not the immediate "hell yes!" like they would strike gold with him.

    But dude is still in his prime at 29 and he is only a season and quarter removed from being a beast of a player in Atlanta, where the system didn't really work for him especially as that number option for the team. The experiment where Detroit thought he'd be the baby Lebron is a bust so he'll be back to being what he was like in Atlanta.

    Again, Woodson is with the Clips, the coach in which Smith excelled with so I assume they'd have an idea on how he could help the team or not.



    Yes I know some spacing will be sacrificed to an extent but I don't think that will be a big problem as Reddicks shots are often off screens and set-ups. CP3 runs around screens all the time too and could usually capitalize on double teams, its up to Doc to make them pay when that happens.

    And Barnes is left open all the time, he is a streaky shooter and watching almost all of the Clips games, it is cringe-worthy seeing him chuck up 3s half of the time. If Smith can offer better defense (again as that quote stated, teams are putting their best player on Barnes because he isn't a great defender anymore and his size when guarding taller guys like Durant and Lebron just makes him a liability more often than not) with his length and athleticism (I am not sure why you would doubt this, dude could still jump out of the arena) then it is worth is especially since with him they could also solve the struggling bench offense.



    Now if being a star is his goal and not to win, then he is better off with the Lakers. :lol:
     
  15. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    the celtics had some bad motherfucking timing with the Jason Smith waiving.

    if it happened sooner, or if they knew it was going to happen, I bet they would've held off on trading rondo and went after smith (his best friend) and tried the crazies together until the February trade deadline. Rondo, Smart, Green, Smith, sullinger/olynik is a pretty interesting starting five on paper.
     
  16. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    I honestly have not read much about Doc being a bad GM, not even being sarcastic but I'd love to read some if you post them. Google doesn't really show anything other than threads from other forums.


    And you can't really say Doc being GM isn't key to resigning Paul, CP3 was pretty open about resigning due to Doc. Any other coach/GM and CP3 would have likely left.

    Older guy signings and other smaller signings aren't that big of a deal. Vujacic and Mullens was to fill the roster and cost little, so is Granger who sank timely 3s in the playoffs. Jackson signing came off Reddick and Barnes injuries. With that said, Reddick was a good fit for CP3 and Blake, no regrets there. Bledsoe had great potential but would demand more money and wanted to start. They were also able to get Collison to replace him which worked fine til he was offered more money, Collison wanted to start so he was going to leave either way. Back to Bledsoe, he excels more in Honacecks system too, running with two fast PGs. That's not Docs system. Cp3 needs shooters around him to space than Bledsoe running with him side by side. I mean there is a reason Hornacecks coaching was a big surprise for everyone, not many expected them to excel so much because that system was somewhat unprecedented. Can't really blame that on Doc.

    I agree that Bledsoe or Collison would have been better to stay with the Clips (though I wouldn't get rid of Reddick for either as long as CP3 and Blake are on the team) and I would have loved it and they'd be better if they stayed over Farmar as back-up but money-wise and them wanting to start, then I could understand and see why Doc did what he did.

    You also overplay the word disaster. Who have they signed that was a disaster? Disaster has to be team wrecking type of signing where they completely miss the playoffs because of it, like if they trade Blake for Josh Smith type of deal. You said it yourself, the veteran signing hasn't been that much negative and I see no problem in taking who they have seen to produce results than taking a chance on a young talent that may or may not produce. They want to win now and their core is solid and in tact and that is what is the most important. They can't do the wait and see strategy that others are doing.

    I mean signing Hawes alone had analysts picking the Clips winning this year before the season started.

    I just don't think you can call Doc a bust as a GM until the Clips starts imploding like Isiah and the Knicks. I don't think they are over the cap either and has room to sign others like Josh Smith or a Granger.

    Out of all the NBA GMs out there, how many are actually really bad, a lot worse than Doc and have never even been through what Doc has been through the past year or so? Him and the team were ready to walk out this year if their owner didn't sell the team. They were a CP3 fumble and terrible call away from the Western Conference last year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  17. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    I found the singular article where you got all your info from, as in almost word for word. :lol:


    Might be better off posting the link and saying you agree than writing all that stuff up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  18. jet

    jet Senior member

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  19. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Just looking around, here's somewhat the other side of that argument: http://clipperblog.com/2014/08/29/anatomy-of-a-deal-dudley-delfino-raduljica-and-assets/


    It also states/implies that it wasn't Doc was somewhat in Sterlings control in his first year:


    Which also linked to an article in which he stopped a Shumpert trade that Doc wanted to do: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/66204/why-iman-shumpert-is-still-a-knick


    Another trade linked from that article about Sterling denying Afflalos coming to the Clips:



    Another link to Sterlings indecision affecting and saying yes and then no to the Bledsoe/Redick deal: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--c...rly-thrown-into-chaos-by-owner-012846814.html


    Yes they wanted the deal done but the article pretty much stated how terrible that first year was for Doc. Article also stated that Doc being with the Clips is the main reason he resigned:




    Now to not drag to hell, I am not saying Doc is batting 1.000, I don't agree with all his decisions and hell I am even one of the few here who called Doc a very good coach and not yet great, many here said he was already great so I am not exactly a Doc stan or anything like that. I also dislike his coaching decisions in some nights. I am just saying I do not see him as terrible GM, he is good to above average from what I am seeing so far. I won't judge until he leaves in 5 years with the Clips no accomplishing everything just like Scott Brooks, I was up on him a few years back when they keep moving forward and kept getting better and kept getting deeper in the playoffs and making the finals until I realize (and many has as well) that it is pretty much all he is capable of and he hasn't adjusted and still played his players to ground and not developing his talents (OKC actually got talent deep in their bench unlike the Clips).


    And in the spirit of the holidays, I will not drag it further and just end my piece there.





    HAPPY HOLIDAYS BASKETBALL FANS!!!!!



    YA'LL HAVE A GREAT CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR!!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  20. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    the one thing im a little confused about is


    does the highest bid get smoove or does the team that smoove picks and signs a contract with get smoove?




    i agree that CP3 might've left if VDN kept coaching, but the rest of BS's points are spot on (even if they were somewhat plagiarized). yes there were money constraints but Doc hasn't done a really great job. they have had to give away assets just to get rid of players that they spent a lot of assets to get. that's clearly not great.

    the vet signings have been pretty bad. imo he's average, but only because the average is so heavily weighed down by all the shitty GMs like Kahn and Dumars. an avocado could do a better job than Kahn


    i still think hawes is a great addition. he's just been plagued by unfortunate injuries. not exactly his fault. also i think the stache automatically gives him a -5 plus minus
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014

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