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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    I don't think D-Rose has to carry this team. Kyrie is just as quick and shifty (maybe not as explosive) and can create offense as well. I also don't think Davis needs to go huge every game as long as Cousins gives you a productive 15 to 20 minutes a game. I do agree that KD was the centerpiece of the last Team USA, but his contributions are not irreplaceable. This team still has an MVP in D-Rose. Instead of getting most of your offense from the forwards with KD, Melo, and LeBron, this current lineup is more guard-centric and most of the offensive production will be generated from the backcourt core of Rose-Irving-Curry-Harden. It'll be a little different, but the outcome should still be the same, I think.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  2. wojt

    wojt Senior member

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    I don't think offense will be a problem with all the talent you guys have
    getting murdered on glass and in the post might be
     
  3. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    Not gonna quote indesertum and diadem's posts so this doesn't become a wall of text, but, some thoughts -

    Regarding screen roll, Miami and SA showed how to contain it - have the screener's man jump out hard and force the handler back, while four guys zone and rotate. Spain might have the only personnel to do this effectively, though...maybe France too

    I'm not a believer in Kyrie yet. He has, IMO, the best handle in the NBA, but he doesn't use it to beast to the rim like Lebron, Rose or Wade in his prime do. The whole "break your man down and pull up for a jumper" play that I see in his highlights is the worst play you can make.

    We also have a frontcourt that brings energy, defense, and all that, but beyond Anthony Davis are liabilities on offense.

    Basically, I'm not saying we have a shit team - just that the competition is close, and there's no margin of error if they come out sloppy or get an injury/foul trouble. And I'm disappointed that our best players all came up with an excuse (except for the injured ones, of course)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  4. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    Yeah, that's the popular line of thought right now, but I think the Brazil game was a good benchmark. They have some quality bigs in Nene, Tiago Splitter, and Anderson Varejao who obviously aren't as good as Spain's bigs, but they're seasoned NBA vets nonetheless. Still, Team USA had a +10 advantage on Brazil in the rebounds category, 44 to 34.

    http://archive.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_exh_01_box.html?ls=iref:nbahpt13a
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  5. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    well pop is known for hating zone and I'm pretty sure miami doesn't do the very traditional 2-3 zone spain does. they do however exactly what you describe where the roll man defender contains the ball handler and everybody rotates (weak side helper comes to protect paint and corner defender bumps the roll man then gets back to the corner guy). miami likes to bring the roll man defender way way high up for a trap and if the offense can get past that it's a 4v3 situation. whereas san antonio prefers to ICE the ball handler and force him away from the middle but the roll man defender still stays a little back.

    in a zone there is no roll man defender. only other guy sometimes involved is the center in the middle of the paint who doesn't really venture outside the paint almost like a super super conservative pick and role defense. the zone is basically a really really hardline pack the paint defense where you give up outside shots in exchange for protecting the paint. its basically saying you guys can shoot all you want but we're not going to let you get easy lay ups. which is hard if the other team has lots of shooters.

    like watch how spain defends the PnR here

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]

    there is no roll man defender. center and corner defender sits way far back and gives up outside shots.

    same thing here

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]



    in this one the corner defender steps up whereas the other ones the center kinda steps up. if korver was in that corner the defender would not do that

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]


    spain does make adjustments tho. like here the zone breaks down when lebron steps in the pain and passes the player in the slot and spain kinda reverts to a man on man defense but it seems like they're not used to it. they allow KD to get to the middle because the roll man defender steps way high up so pau has to come back to the middle which leads to an open lebron.

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]


    nowadays most nba teams will do hybrid zones at most
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  6. wojt

    wojt Senior member

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    ^ that's because Euro zones are better than US zones (you can camp the paint)
     
  7. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    Wait, are there seriously no defensive 3-second violations in FIBA? That's stupid as all fuck...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  8. wojt

    wojt Senior member

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    yeah, that's why we play zone in Europe so often
     
  9. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    We played FIBA zone once in a league where it was allowed. I definitely played worse defense because you just kind of stood there and when I do that, my attention always wanders...
     
  10. wojt

    wojt Senior member

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    well zone is team oriented D so if people never/rarely played zone before it's gonna suck balls when you play it (well maybe it can work if the opponent team can't hit a thing from outside and don't move well on O or in other words when they suck too )
     
  11. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    Hey, Balkman back in the house at MSG tonight! Guy's still alive :lol:
     
  12. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    Was at MSG tonight for the USA-Puerto Rico game. Curry had a nasty behind-the-back bounce pass to a cutting Harden for the fast-break dunk. He led all US players in scoring, too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
  13. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    USA World Cup rosters announced:


    2014 #USABMNT World Cup roster - Guards: @drose, @StephenCurry30, @KyrieIrving, @KlayThompson, @DeMar_DeRozan and @JHarden13

    2014 #USABMNT World Cup roster - F/Cs: @KennethFaried35, @boogiecousins, @AntDavis23, @rudygay22, @AndreDrummondd & @masonplumlee


    Only taking 12 to Spain, as opposed to taking more and jettisoning b4 the tourney starts. They cut: Gordon Hayward, Chandler Parsons (who is apparently looking fat?), Kyle Korver, Damian Lillard.

    Pretty obvious that they're not satisfied w/ any of their bigs (besides Davis of course), so they're hoping one of them emerges.

    Nate Duncan is a ridiculously prolific and good analyst and scout and he was bemoaning USA's selection process, saying that the back-up big should ideally be able to finish PnRs, set good screens, play post D, play PnR D, and protect the rim, but that none of Boogie, Plumlee, and Drummond can even do 3 of those things. He wanted Taj Gibson, DeAndre Jordan, maybe even Larry Sanders or Derrick Favors to get a call. Hard to argue w/ that, esp in the case of Plumlee, who I seriously doubt would have gotten this far if he didn't go to Duke. http://is.gd/K9feKC
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  14. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    It is a weird mix of bigs for sure, but I think there's some versatility at Coach K's disposal here. Hustle guys like Faried and Plumlee let them play a fast run n' gun game that'll get them through pool play without banging bodies too much. Boogie Cousins gives them size to match up with the bigger, slower teams like Spain, at least on offense. I agree that DeAndre Jordan would have been a good fit, but not sure if his offensive game is polished enough. He led the league in FG% because he was basically finishing alley-oops from Chris Paul or getting put-back dunks for most of his points. Opportunities like that are much rarer in FIBA where there are no defensive 3 second violations. I don't like Taj Gibson's offense either and Larry Sanders is a headcase.

    Either way, Team USA's backcourt rotation is by far the best of any team in the tournament, so that's where they'll try to get their edge.
     
  15. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    The cuts made sense to me. Dame is the only painful one, but they can't bring 4 PG's to Spain. The others will be one dimensional shooters on this team, and you don't need them when you already have Klay et. al.

    Not one shooting big man on the team. That's going to be a problem. Were Aldridge, Ryan Anderson and Bosh invited, but declined?
     
  16. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    Bosh is probably done with international play. He played well in the 2008 Olympics, but didn't make the 2012 squad (not even sure if he made himself available for the games). Ryan Anderson played on the Select Team, but he's too injury-prone and needed the offseason to recoup. LaMarcus Aldridge pulled out earlier this summer to rest up. Ultimately, I think Rudy Gay fills the spread 4 role nicely for this team.

    Here's Steph Curry's no-look BTB pass. Was sick to see it in person and the Garden got pretty loud.

    [​IMG]

    Also, if his body can handle it, D-Rose needs to get more minutes. Team USA's offense looks really good with him as the floor general. He was making great decisions with the ball against Puerto Rico last night, especially a mid-air touch-pass to Klay Thompson for the baseline 3-pointer, and then a tough drive-and-kick to Rudy Gay on the weak side for another 3-pointer. Dude is just awesome.

    4:50 and 5:20 in the following vid:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
    2 people like this.
  17. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    So the "H" is for Harden?
     
  18. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    yea it's not a huge deal, I don't think, cuz back-up big hopefully won't matter that much. but plumlee is not even an average nba player...he jumps high, but slowly, he's not a good rebounder, he's young and doesn't know what to do on D, he's super inconsistent, he has no offensive game. there's definitely problems w/ the other players listed, but I think it's hard to argue they don't provide more than plumlee. jordan is loads better at rim-protecting, taj gibson's offense >>> plumlee's offense. sanders from 2 years ago would be a perfect fit for the team, but who knows what he plays like now.

    faried actually has his own problems (small, bad at D), but he provides ridiculous energy and his own helpful brand of offensive skills; he's been really good so far.
     
  19. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    USA losing to Turkey in the 3rd. :brick:
     
  20. gettoasty

    gettoasty Senior member

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