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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    The article presented all his numbers but left his 4 1/2 turnovers a game out. That's misleading. There was a lot of questionable decision making in Westbrook's playoff run.

    Reminds me of that line from Inglourious Basterds, "I love rumors! Facts can be so misleading, where rumors, true or false, are often revealing."
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  2. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    turnovers in basketball are akin to strikeouts, batting average, rbi, and wins (for pitchers). they are misleading stats.

    you can say missing a shot and having the defense rebound is just as bad as a turnover - even if its a great shot.

    but turnovers like this are devastating:

    [​IMG]

    its all about context. there needs to be a stat that qualifies and differentiates turnovers... something like a "true turnover" ... akin to true shooting percentage (which takes into consideration difficulty of shots.).

    during KD's MVP earning run during the regular season (most of which was when westbrook was injured) he averaged something ridiculous, like almost 10 turnovers a game by himself, but was also so efficient offensively (ironically) that the TO's were a moot point.
     
  3. kissmyjazz

    kissmyjazz Senior member

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    Westbrook had very good play-offs, his stats are still somewhat padded by all those overtimes OKC had to play.
     
  4. hendrix

    hendrix Senior member

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    That's just a silly quote from a movie. Doesn't actually mean anything at all other than sounding cool.

    Yeah he made questionable decisions...so did everyone on the team and in management, and anyone throughout the history of sport.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    Yes and no. I find truth in the notion that rumors are revealing.
     
  6. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    This is the same guy who believes in the existence of Sasquatch so....
     
  7. edinatlanta

    edinatlanta Senior member

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    quote didn't work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  8. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    anybody who handles the ball a ton is going to have a ton of turnovers. his assist turnover ratios are actually pretty decent

    i could also flip the table and say your turnover stat is misleading (because you know... facts are misleading....)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  9. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    You said facts are facts. The point was to flip the table to expose how facts can be misleading.
     
  10. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I don't know. I understand your point, but Westbrook's ability to take guys off the dribble and get blowbys is one of the things that makes him so disruptive. Given his athleticism and skills he could still be an effective scorer off the ball, of course, but he'd be a very different player.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    you flipped the table to expose how facts can be misleading by using a fact. that was misleading...

    maybe you don't get it


    my prediction is spurs in 7. spurs is better than last year (all their role players are much better). heats is worse than last year (all their key role players are aging or gone although bosh has now developed a 3 point shot, lebron is somehow even better, and wade is healthy)
     
  12. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    I agree that the Spurs are the favorite in this series, but I don't get the statements some of you are making about the Spurs being a better team this year. Maybe the only player who raised his game from last playoffs to this one is Manu. The others, especially Kawhi, have been great in the 2014 playoffs, but they were great in the 2013 finals also, except for Manu, who sucked.

    But I also agree that the Heat are slightly worse this year, barring Rashard Lewis and Norris Cole playing like they did v. Indiana, and that should be enough for the Spurs if Manu comes to play and Parker isn't seriously injured.

    But of course, they still have to play the games, as they say
     
  13. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Games are very misleading.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    well patty mills is a ton better this year. last year they barely played him, but this year he was their legit go to guy when parker was injured. bellinelli/mills is better than gary neal was last year. diaw's 3 point shot is better, ginobili is healthy again, kawhi is a ton better (much better on offense with defense slightly better. he can knock down those midrange shots, his 3 point is a little better, and his ball handling skills has legit improved. he does that parker spin move some times. its so good). danny green after a rough start is playing pretty awesome in the playoffs

    kawhi this year

    [​IMG]


    kawhi last year

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  15. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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  16. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    IIRC Kawhi took a big leap forward in the '13 playoffs. So I'm more interested in a playoffs year over year comparison without reg season. Also, let's not use the BBM metrics, those are for gauging relative fantasy value based on statistical production and not necessarily win contribution. I think things like plus/minus or player efficiency would be more relevant here

    I haven't looked at the numbers so I'm keeping an open mind
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  17. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    he's a lot better than last year but i guess he's not doing so well in the playoffs this year compared to last year
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  18. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    I don't understand how playing him at the 2 precludes that. I believe he'd still have the ability to play his game having someone else directing the play. He'd get more open shots in catch and shoot situations, but he'd just as easily be able to receive a pass off a screen and blow by to the rim. Westbrook will probably never turn into a great decision maker, so craft an offense that takes some of the decisions away but lets him be a freak athlete.

    Some of his moves to the rim in that series looked like you were watching in fast forward. Steve Nash said it was like playing against Usain Bolt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  19. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I agree there's still a lot he could do playing at the 2. But -- speaking as someone who is more of a casual fan than a hoops expert -- having the ball start in his hands seems to be a whole different thing. He's so quick and such a strong driver to the rim that his defender and all of the potential help defenders need to be constantly worried that he'll suddenly take off. There's an immediacy to the threat that is still there, but I believe lessened somewhat, when he's not handling the ball. If someone else is the primary ball handler, the defense may be able to more effectively slow RW down by pressuring the ball handler and blocking passing lanes, etc.
     
  20. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    he's not a good catch and shoot player, man, so you're sacrificing crazy team spacing, like wade on the heat.
    he'd have to get used to cutting off the ball, which took wade a season or so.
    he loses his extreme height advantage when matched up against much bigger defenders and offensive players, thus negating a lot of why he's so good in the first place.
    he's already not great at defense, and you're putting him up against players where his length isn't going to be as much of a mitigating factor.
    he won't be able to post up nearly as much, which he does actually pretty well against small point guards.
    he's actually a very good passer who just makes the occasional obvious bad decision with the ball. you're significantly decreasing his ability to set up good shots for others.
    reggie jackson is a significantly worse passer than russell westbrook.
     

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