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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. HRoi

    HRoi Stylish Dinosaur

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    the Lebron-Jordan comparisons are premature and part of the reason why I hate fucking reactionary headline-targeted sports journalism. I guarantee you that if Lebron averaged the same 30/9/5 but the Heat lost the championship (easy enough to imagine, the Thunder were right in every game except #5), the headlines would be about what a POS he is and how we should just give up on him. but no, he won and now they say he's in the same pantheon as MJ for the exact same performance.

    I saw this too in the coverage of Miami-Indiana and Miami-Boston...every other day you read an article that asked "are the Heat done?", and a couple of days later, "is there anyone who can stop the Heat?"

    but there is a legit parallel between Jordan's career arc and James's...both of them were the most unstoppable force in the NBA that took awhile to figure out how to win a title. Lebron faced the choker tag, Jordan was supposedly selfish and could not elevate his teammates. ironically, Kobe got the same criticisms as Jordan did after Shaq left and he struggled at first to win titles without him.


    lastly, I dunno what adding Ray Allen does for Heat team chemistry...there is genuine hatred for the Celtics among the Heat guys, although to be fair most of it is reserved for KG, Rondo and Pierce. I suppose Lebron and Wade would say the right things and say as long as he can help, etc...but I still don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012


  2. jet

    jet Persian Bro

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    lol @ jordan comparison talk
     


  3. mxgreen

    mxgreen Senior Member

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    I don't think Ray Allen would hurt the Heat's chemistry. I think he would fit right in very quickly.
     


  4. mxgreen

    mxgreen Senior Member

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    Thunder were not the better team. LeBron is better than Durant, Wade is better than Westbrook and Bosh is better than Harden. Aside from Ibaka the Heat had the better role players.

    As far as Spoelstra goes I don't think there are many coaches that would have started Battier at power forward. That was a brilliant move.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012


  5. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Distinguished Member

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    ^did you watch/listen to the analysis that Cuban gave?

    the gist of cuban's argument is that the heat were/are predictable (Pat riley) offense/defense schemes are the same all the time. last year dallas used that to their advantage and made adjustments.

    unfortunately OKC didn't make any adjustments and tried to win using their own inherent advantage(s) rather than exploit the heats shortcomings (using zone defenses to minimize lebron's unstoppable production then switching defensive schemes to confuse him).

    cuban admitted that lebron basically can't be stopped, and likened him to a genius quarterback who makes the right decision :)rimshot:) 99% of the time by reading defensive schemes immediately so the only way to have a chance to is force him into the lowest possible percentage plays (even if that means still being a great/proper play).

    the difference was that cuban/rick carlise/and scouts used all the advanced stats and analyses and applied the concepts to put them selves in the best possible way to succeed. cuban observed that OKC didn't make any adjustments and suffered.

    the weird thing is that the OKC GM obviously use advance stats to determine personnel choices (perkins is a favorite center with regards to defensive stat geeks), but maybe they didn't coordinate that info with scott brooks and the coaching staff.

    this is part of the reason I think that OKC may fire brooks if they can find someone willing to use the stats/analytics like rick carlisle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012


  6. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    Nope. Nope. Nope.

    Here is the difference: Jordan didnt go looking for a Dwade and Bosh to lick balls with. Pippen was drafted in. Look at some of those late 80's early 90's Bulls rosters, they make the Heat bench look like all stars. There wasnt a huge amount of talent there. Jordan and Pippen did most of it. And Pippen was way the 2nd fiddle.

    And for that matter, neither did Magic or Bird. Those were pretty average rosters. Other than Kareem and McHale, not a huge amount of talent. You could even say that for the Bad Boys era for Detroit too.

    Look, for me there will always be an asterisk on Lebron: needed 2 stars with him to do it.



    I dont think there is a team in the league that doesnt crunch numbers like Dallas did. Thats why I was saying way back that Lin was gonna get figured out. There are guys looking at everything, every play, every dribble, position, substitution, you name it. OKC was too. I am still amazed that they didnt make the right changes. There were a litany of shit decisions:


    • Harden on Lebron
    • Fisher too many minutes
    • Doing nothing to get Durant better position
    • Rarely pounding the ball inside
    • No defensive variation
    • Too many iso's on offense
    • Failing to block out
    • Bad transition defense

    On and on and on. There was a fundamental breakdown in decision making and the coaching staff is to blame.
     


  7. Fraiche

    Fraiche Distinguished Member

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    Lin doesn't have to be figured out. He's not physically gifted enough to be a star player.

    Not that his skillset isn't good enough, but rather, his body isn't built to take the typical beating a star player usually gets from strong defensive assignments and double teams.
     


  8. sjmin209

    sjmin209 Distinguished Member

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    :rolleyes:
     


  9. ConcernedParent

    ConcernedParent Distinguished Member

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    Oh please, Steve Nash and Jason Kidd weren't stars in their day? If Lin improves 2 of the following 3: more consistent decision making, shooting, defense, he will be a top 5 "pure" point
     


  10. thinman

    thinman Distinguished Member

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    Basketball is a team game, so I never intended to blame only Westbrook for the loss. Though Westbrook was inconsistent (phenomenal one night, maddeningly horrendous the next), Harden never played a single game the way he is capable of playing. I never thought Bosh and the Miami reserves would step up the way they did either. When Bosh got hurt, I thought he wouldn't be able to come back in time to make a major contribution, but he proved me wrong. And Battier and Chalmers alternately broke my heart. The Heat surely deserved to win.



    There is just so much wrong with this. You seem to have forgotten just how much heavy lifting Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, and John Paxson (and later, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, and Steve Kerr) did for those championship teams the Bulls had. Grant (Rodman) were good for double figures in rebounds every night, Paxson (Kerr) opened the lane for MJ by dropping 3-pointers, and Cartwright defended the other team's big man. As for the Celtics of that era (who I hated with a passion) Robert Parish and Cedric Maxwell made major contributions and the Lakers had any number of fine, fine players like James Worthy, Sam Perkins, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, etc. playing supporting roles. Having said that, you ARE right that LeBron's orchestrating the Miami meet-up with D-Wade and Bosh make him an insecure little bitch.

    Most of this is spot-on, though it's really not the Thunder's character to pound the ball inside.



    I agree that it's far too early to compare LeBron and Jordan. Let's wait until LeBron wins a few more championships (like 5 more).



    I hadn't intended to open this "can of worms", since it really is too early to make the compairsion. The early parts of their careers haved some parallels, but it remains to be seen if the latter parts also parallel each other (in other words, will LeBron win any more championships?).
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012


  11. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    Its no more than any other championship team had. Its hard to compare the supporting roles with the Heat because its a different construction, but for example with the Thunder, Ibaka, Perkins, Shefalosha, Collison are just as useful as past champ teams supporting roles and do the same sorts of things.
     


  12. Rambo

    Rambo Stylish Dinosaur

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  13. dopey

    dopey Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    If Gerald Wilkins were better at finishing on the break, he would be an excellent one dimensional player.

    Lin will be fine in the NBA - a decent, third tier starter.
     


  14. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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  15. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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