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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    When you have a Kobe like scorer it creates "Kobe assists" which were those little putt backs from offensive rebounds (especially effective with a large front line like pau and Bynum or for okc ibaka/kanter and Adams), or the volume shooter scores, or draws a double team and kick out to a shooter.

    With two kobes on the floor it ends up being that stagnant clogged toilet offense. Very easy to defend and get defensive rebounds against. This is what happened in crunch time and end of quarters - - wb and KD made things predictable

    Instead of extending the lead okc would just squander it.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  2. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    I think the most apt description is OKC played streetball and GSW is SPURS 2014 on steroids, crack, the fake 90210 drug euphoria, etc.


    Well, here's hoping Cavs get swept at least.
     
    2 people like this.
  3. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I agree with your comments generally on an intuitive level, but didn't OKC lead the league in offensive rebounding? I'm too lazy to look it up, but I assume they did pretty well in PPG, too. With the rebounding point especially, I'm not sure how that squares up, unless it's that (1) OKC's players are so aggressive and/or effective in going after offensive rebounds that they overcame this systemic disadvantage; or (2) during the regular season they generally played in a fashion that avoided the clogged toilet effect but they got away from that under the stress of playoff pressure.



    I guess offensive rebounding is not exactly the opposite of the opposing team's defensive rebounding. If you take a shit-ton of shots, there are enough rebounds to go around for everybody. But I'm again going to make a lazy assumption/inference, which is that given how strong their offensive rebounding numbers were, their "defensive rebounds against" number is relatively low.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  4. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    During the beginning and middle of the quarters okc ran an actual offense, with Westbrook running a pick and roll with Adams/kanter/ibaka and it was scary effective (granted Adams missed a bunch of 10footers) but either way there was no stopping the easy buckets. Once the defense would try to collapse on the pick and roll KD then had free reign to be an effective iso player.

    That's when okc would open up those 10-15pt leads.

    Then the end of quarter would come (or gsw would hit some threes) and the offense turned into KD and WB dueling banjos iso offense to where the defense could just double on KD or collapse on a slashing WB.

    They lead the league in offensive rebounding probably because of the normal effective offensive sets that yielded the normal Kobe assist offensive rebounds from that huge front line

    Gsw and Spurs, and 2008-2012 Celtics did the new school thing and just avoid offensive rebounds all together , because the analytics pointed towards having a complete defense set up as quickly as possible yielded better numbers (in preventing points) rather than gambling for and offensive rebound to score points.

    It's dependent on personnel though, if you have a huge front line then you can then start having the bigs go for offensive rebounds, which the 2008-2010 lakers proved fruitful.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  5. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Makes sense.
    On your final point, I'd say that an additional factor in favor of going the offensive rebound route is one one of those bigs (*cough*Bynum*cough*) is a mentally lazy dope who might make "having a complete defense set up as quickly as possible" harder to achieve consistently than it otherwise should be.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  6. globobock

    globobock Senior member

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    Obviously MJ and Kobe had their share of coaches they ran out of town... But what LBJ did to Blatt was another level. His reasoning it with his "brilliant basketball mind" is the icing on the cake.
     
  7. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    OKC seemed to have learned something important about themselves during the SA series, and it really did look reborn. And really did look like they were going to pull this off. I didn't know this, but I was surprised to find out how many of the Thunder's games were lost in a pretty crap fashion in 4th Q collapses during the regular season. The DNA for this series was sewn in that.

    I really can't find a logical explanation why this team succeeds and is able to build a lead thru good basketball and then their 2 stars, in tandem 'takeover the game'. Now if this was successful, fine... but it's not. And these are 2 top athletes, and you have to assume they're a hair above knuckle draggers, so how on earth can they not accept they're better in the flow than in hero ball? It's a series question... how come they can't get it and cut the shit?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  8. skitlets

    skitlets Senior member

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    OKC was feasting on the offensive boards because Draymond either had to help prevent KD/Westbrook driving into the lane, or OKC would force a switch and have Draymond be the primary defender. Either way, Draymond would be contesting the shot instead of rebounding.

    When we had Bogut in, we did alright grabbing boards. But whenever he sat, Adams feasted or Westbrook would sneak in and tip the ball out. The scheme allowed OKC so many 2nd and 3rd chances. Same way Kobe would draw a double and Pau could crash the board.

    Then Adams got roasted by Klay and Curry at the 3 point line, when they combined for 8/8 (!!!!!!) in shooting over Adams. BD pulled him, and the rest is history.
     
  9. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    OKC started G7 with like 5 chances at a basket. I believe Bogut was a starter. Adams defending at the 3 point line wasn't the fundamental problem, they demonstrated a clear capacity to outscore GS. What was a problem is that OKCs 2 main star players have seen too many super hero movies and couldn't trust a functional offense.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  10. skitlets

    skitlets Senior member

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    Eh even if they run a crap offense, when you get 3 tries at the bucket, you're gonna get 1 eventually. I would've kept Adam in, but I can see why BD pulled him.

    I'm not even making a fundamental point about why a team won or lost. There's a bunch of reasons. Just stating my 2c about offensive rebounding in this series.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  11. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    I tend to agree. I can see why he pulled him, but can't say it was the smart move because nobody succeeds against GS matching them for small.

    His big lineups were dominant, especially in gobbling these fabled "Kobe Assists". I kept asking myself in the 4th why he didn't play Adams and Ibaka... or you know, play that $16m/yr albatross on your bench with the cute mustache sucking up your cap.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  12. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    One of the surprising anecdotes that was brought up the other day was how OKC has been to the Conference Finals 4 out of the past 5 seasons. With a loaded West, that's just nuts. Just imagine if they played some semblance of intelligent basketball. smh


    I just hope Russ/KD don't become this generation's Stockton/Malone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  13. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    the 2000's Western Conference kind of resembles the 80's Eastern Conference where it was such a rat race to get to the top (76ers, Celtics, Pistons). Hell the Bulls had the greatest player ever and weren't really taken seriously until they had to win over everyone (celtics and pistons) and go straight to the championship and become a dynasty.

    they're following that 80's pistons arc of going through the most heartbreaking ways to lose at the highest levels before finally winning.

    the saddest team of all in the 80's? the Milwaukee Bucks, who had the 3rd most reg season wins of all teams in the NBA and still didn't win a chip.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  14. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    I wonder what would happen if OKC did end up eliminating Golden State.


    Would you guys have them beating the Cavs in the finals??
     
  15. double00

    double00 Senior member

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    what do you mean? didn't lebron hire blatt to an nba head coaching position in the first place? it shoulda been clear that he served at bron's pleasure...

    and anyways cavs are a better team under lue.
     
  16. kissmyjazz

    kissmyjazz Senior member

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    Blatt was hired before Lebron decided to move to Cleveland, at least officially
     
  17. double00

    double00 Senior member

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    hmmm...

    late june blatt (and lue) are hired. early july bron signs. team proceeds to fill out the roster with a bunch of ex-heat teammates and buddies.

    GS will win in 6 or sooner unless D Green T's out of the playoffs.

    OKC maybe coulda, maybe not (they don't have that killer instinct lol).
     
  18. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    The Akron Beacon Journal's Jason Lloyd reports:

    Funny postgame moment: As James was leaving the locker room, Blatt -- wearing only a towel -- swung open the door to his office and called James over to him.

    "C’mon Coach," James said. "I can’t talk to you like this."

    He did, though. James obliged and after the two briefly chatted, James turned and walked toward Tristan Thompson. "That man was naked," James said.

    "Players walk around locker rooms in towels all the time," writes Lloyd. "Unusual to see coaches do it, however."


    http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland...ving-j-r-smith-s-shot-and-trip-ahead-1.652248
     
  19. ballmouse

    ballmouse Senior member

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    In hindsight, Blatt did have a little bit of that Mike Singletary rigidness to him.
     
  20. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    Lue seems to be more of a player's coach. Blatt was probably really hard on his players.
     
    1 person likes this.

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