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NBA 2009-2010 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    there are sometimes anomalies where a lesser person can get someone one on one. like how many posters do you see a white guy dunking on jordan? it does happen but rarely. also i think pau played him too close , and too far away from the paint. pau just made the mistake of not sagging off him (is that the term?) knowing he won't hit the outside shot
    so much fail in one post. 1. comparing some white guy dunking on jordan (which i've btw never seen) to Stoudemire. 2. thinking that stoudemire can't hit that outside shot, which he can and does willingly. 3. putting the onus on Pau when my whole point was that he destroyed pau in this game on his own at least some...so that doesn't matter.
    he ranks around the fifteenth best player in the league and the fifteenth best player in the league is going to get a max deal. yes an additional player better than amare will be needed to acquire a title. that doesn't mean he's not worth it. looking at the recent champs at good teams, lakers had gasol and kobe maxed with bynum close, i believe the celtics had all three of their guys maxed, magic have two (rashard lewis is a horrid contract), the suns had one (i believe nash is paid less). you want to be paying your money out to star players.
    I've never thought that "the 15th best player is going to get a max deal," but if it's true, then Amare deserves one. I've always thought that a max deal should go to a player that can ostensibly be the best player on a championship-contending team; otherwise, there's no point. I dunno the truth in that, though I don't consider Amare to be that.
    [​IMG] Oh come on now. I would agree with you if he did that every game, but dude shows up once in that playoff series and all of a sudden he can destroy Pau? I would put that on Pau more so than on Amares ability. He is a good player, no doubt, but even Perkins can do that to Pau once in a while, hell probably even Big Baby Davis but in no way does it mean they destroy Pau. Not to mention he averaged 6 rebounds in that whole series.
    [​IMG] Did you really say that Kendrick Perkins can make that move around Pau? or Big Baby? Seriously, you know as well as I that only super long quick skilled 4s like Amare, Gasol, Bosh can make that move at least every once in awhile. Look, like I said, Amare is a star (are you doubting that?) and he has the ability, as shown by that play and that game in the series, to take a game over (are you doubting that?). With that ability, something that Joe Johnson hasn't shown, por ejemplo, teams are going to overpay. I purposely didn't say anything about his consistency, so I don't know what you're arguing w/ me about. From the 2nd half of the year on last year, Amare was literally one of the top 3 players in the league. I don't necessarily blame him for having a mediocre (for him) playoffs against the biggest team in the league when he dominated so thoroughly in the regular season and has always showed up for the playoffs before.
    Also, what are the odds lebron signs somewhere with an earlier opt out clause? Haven't heard a ton about it but i could see that as a possibility since he seems pretty torn and unsure.
    I always thought it would be hilarious if Bosh, Wade, and James signed 1-year-contracts for a different team every year, like a traveling band of title-winning gypsies.
     
  2. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Kendrick has done that move on Pau and Howard at least once, guaranteed. Big Baby has done that consistently against Odom, I see no reason why he can't do it with Pau. Pau doesn't have a strong base, you bump him a bit and he gets out of place or try to flop so someone could drive around him quickly. Again, I never said they would consistently be able to pull it off but you certainly are giving Amare too much credit. And again, I agreed he is a star, no doubt, but for $20 mil, I would pay someone more consistent. I'd rather offer David Lee $10m-$12m a year than Amare for $20m a year and get one good FA and another role player, maybe a decent PG.

    I have no doubt he can dominate the game, but dominating one game out of a series isn't worth $20m. Even with the 2 wins they got in that series, only one was on him, the other was on the bench. Plus he averaged 6 rebounds a game, I simply cannot get over that. It's no excuse to have a mediocre just because you play the biggest team int he league, when you just said he could take Pau and destroy him. Now theres an excuse? Even before that series I remember you defended that the Lakers weren't too big and that rebounds wouldn't be an issue and yeah, you might have been partly correct that the Lakers didn't have an overwhelming advantage but that doesn't seem to be what you are saying now.

    Plain and simple, Amare is good, but not great. Amare is not worth $20m/yr. We are not 100% sure how he will play w/o Nash, even in D'Antonis system. NYK is screwed if they do not get Lebron or Wade. NYK is screwed if/once Melo signs that extension.

    The second half of the year, no way was Amare top 3. Durant, LBJ and Wade were easily top 3. Not to mention Dirk, Howard and Melo who I would rank before him. Hell I would even rank Bogut above Amare the whole year last year, given that the Bucks doesn't even have a passing PG.
     
  3. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Senior member

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    id even take boozer before amare
     
  4. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    Kendrick has done that move on Pau and Howard at least once, guaranteed. Big Baby has done that consistently against Odom, I see no reason why he can't do it with Pau. Pau doesn't have a strong base, you bump him a bit and he gets out of place or try to flop so someone could drive around him quickly.
    [​IMG]
    I have no doubt he can dominate the game, but dominating one game out of a series isn't worth $20m. Even with the 2 wins they got in that series, only one was on him, the other was on the bench. Plus he averaged 6 rebounds a game, I simply cannot get over that. It's no excuse to have a mediocre just because you play the biggest team int he league, when you just said he could take Pau and destroy him. Now theres an excuse? Even before that series I remember you defended that the Lakers weren't too big and that rebounds wouldn't be an issue and yeah, you might have been partly correct that the Lakers didn't have an overwhelming advantage but that doesn't seem to be what you are saying now.
    Man, I AGREE with you that Amare isn't worth a max contract; I was explaining how he's more worth one than, say, Boozer. I totally agree that Amare should have done way more on the boards against LA.

    But no matter what, you don't make a FA decision based off of one playoff series. That's ludicrous.
    The second half of the year, no way was Amare top 3. Durant, LBJ and Wade were easily top 3. Not to mention Dirk, Howard and Melo who I would rank before him. Hell I would even rank Bogut above Amare the whole year last year, given that the Bucks doesn't even have a passing PG.
    I'd put Amare around Durant/Howard after James. In Feb-April (i.e. after All-Star break), he averaged 27.5 and 10 at 56% shooting. Perhaps more importantly, his team had the best record post All-Star Break, and a lot of that was due to Amare. Few people realized the difference of his impact after all those trade rumors were finally dispelled.
     
  5. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    Aamare got a max deal from the knicks because someone was gonna give him the max deal so it's what it took to sign him. Amare definitely isn't as good as advertised even offensively. I mean, everyone knows he's a no show on defense and doesn't put much effort in there or rebounding. However, his offense is inconsistent and very streaky while his success is also at times disrupting. Plus, we know he's a headcase with some big star drama and an inferiority complex from his past problems. Maybe he'll be changed but hard not to give him the max. I mean, i don't think joe johnson and amare are max guys but it was obviously gonna happen. Amare is still a good offensive player and can definitely get you some good points and is very good playing 1on1. It's not necessarily a knock on him he's not a top 5 elite player or something like that
     
  6. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    i'm tired of talking about Amare, how about Duhon to the Magic?! there's a new beast in the east! [​IMG]
     
  7. djblisk

    djblisk Senior member

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    Duhon to the Magic? Really Orlando? That guy is terrible and he can't shoot!!!

    Amare: Lets see how he does without Nash feeding him the ball.

    Lebron: I don't fucking care anymore... please sign somewhere so I don't have to hear your name... That guy is Dominque Wilkens with passing ability. Both losers until Lebron can win a championship.

    Bosh: Really? Another soft forward? He is pau gasol 2008 when Boston bashed gasol's brains in. He needs another great player for him to get past the first round.

    D-Wade: The only winner of the bunch, I hope he goes to Chicago. That team would be unbelievable to watch.
     
  8. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    What? The magic have a ton of shooters right now. Pretty much the whole team other than dwight. I think duhon is the perfect backup pg. He plays good defense, is poised, and runs an offense well. Good basketball iq and can get teams into offensive sets and keep things flowing well. Not being a fantastic scorer isn't the end of the world for a player. I think the magic will benefit greatly. Much better backup pg than white chocolate jason williams or anthony johnson. Plus the 4 years 15 million was very reasonable for a solid contributing backup.


    Bosh has been great year in year out. Also, thinking that someone on the right team with the right coach can't play "hard" or something is ridiculous. Bosh has been putting up great numbers and it's hard to blame him for not having 100% effort considering toronto has never had a prayer of anything. Silly to discount him for that like it would've been silly for the lakers to try and deal pau because he used to have a "soft" label. Those labels are largely things the media talk about because talking about stupid intangibles is sometimes all you have like "he just doesn't have the clutch gene" or "he just wants it more".


    wade winning a title 4 years ago means he's a winner in 2010-2011 season? lol
     
  9. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    The problem with Duhon is he shoots too much 3's and most of it clanks off the rim. With a team like Orlando who lives and dies by the 3's, I have a feeling he'd be shooting more 3's than Carter. I still think the Magic has a bigger problem in the coaching department, they just do not utilize their players well.

    Bosh was a beast before he got hurt after the ASG. Dude was putting up 30/15 on a nightly basis in the first 2 months of the season and he did gain muscle, which helped him become as dominant as he was before the break.
     
  10. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    I don't get it; by almost all accounts, Stan Van Gundy is an excellent coach all around. I suppose you can't ask Pat Riley that. Just cuz they had a few terrible games against the Celtics' great playoff D doesn't mean they really need to change that much. Howard played a lot better in the post during the reg season this year than last year; it's just a matter of it transitioning to the playoffs. Their strategy overall is also great in the regular season, and it is what got them to the finals last year.
    Silly to discount him for that like it would've been silly for the lakers to try and deal pau because he used to have a "soft" label. Those labels are largely things the media talk about because talking about stupid intangibles is sometimes all you have like "he just doesn't have the clutch gene" or "he just wants it more". wade winning a title 4 years ago means he's a winner in 2010-2011 season? lol
    Love this. It's JUST like all the "loser" rumors bout Elway or Peyton Manning before they finally won a championship. Or even Jordan before he finally overcame the Pistons. Winning a title isn't just about some mentality or wanting it more. Luck is always going to be a factor, and teammates are, too.
     
  11. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    But you can't use that excuse all the time though. Sure the Boston were a quarter away from winning the title but in the end, they lost. Same with the Magic, one bad series means a lot since they pretty much got beat by the Celtics, easily. If the Magic utilized Bass, Anderson and Gortat, they will have a more diverse team. Bass is a great hustle guy and a good defensive player that could match up well with Davis and even Perkins. Gortat, they paid him extra so he won't leave to Dallas, but does not get playing time. Anderson was smoking hot when Lewis was suspended, then they completely forgot him when Lewis returned. Those are all coaching mistakes, the same coaching mistake he made when he played Nelson over Alston in the Finals last year, a less than 100% Nelson might I add. The Magic just happened to match up well with their first 2 opponents in the playoffs and swept them but once they faced a team that actually played defense, then they were screwed from the get go. Same can be said with the Lakers, don't get me wrong. I think they got the best match ups in the end, the biggest threat to them on the West was Dallas and Denver and they manage to avoid them and got to the Finals. But when it comes to actually playing a team you do not match up well against, that is when the coach have to know what works and should have prepared for. Phil mixed it up and managed to change strategies, putting Sasha instead of Brown, putting Fisher on Allen even though he has done a great job with the other PGs, etc... SVG did none of those from what I've seen. He stuck with an offensively incompetent Howard and didn't adapt to Bostons game. There is just a time when enough is enough, SVG is a good coach but if he isn't getting it done, time to move on, look at Mike Woodson, he has brought Atlanta out of the funk and steadily won more game every year but they kept getting bounced out of the playoffs so time to move on. Of course that is just my opinion, SVG always had questionable decisions and building a good team but utilizing them horribly. Before the 09-10 season started, Magic was deemed the most stacked because it is a solid team, there were even articles where they could have a defensive team and a 3pt expert team, a slashing team, etc... but really SVG didn't use it to his advantage. He stayed with the same formula and got himself less closer to the finals. I swear, I do not look to argue with you Brothersport, it just seems like I pick on you but I really don't. We just happen to have different point of views on most of these stuff. [​IMG]
     
  12. Brothersport

    Brothersport Senior member

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    Omg can't believe you just compared SVG to Woodson.

    Honestly SVG is not faultless, but I feel like there's not much more he could have done. You can point to mistakes that any coach makes...Phil Jackson was TERRIBLE at some times in the playoffs. Remember him matching Fisher to Westbrook minute-for-minute? He couldn't control Artest at times and didn't get Gasol the ball enough in the 4th ever. Stuff like that blows over when you have enough talent and do enough to win.

    The guys you listed aren't that great to me. There's a reason Bass seems so talented, yet gets traded all the time, and Ryan Anderson is little more than a stiff to me. Who was he supposed to guard, KG? For how shitty Lewis played, at least he played great D. Gortat I like, but I must admit he had a down year this year. I also dunno if Alston can really be the starting PG of a championship-winning team, lol. The Magic have a really deep roster, and when you lose, you're always going to get criticized for not taking advantage of it. When you look at it, Carter (most talented wing) had a terrible series, Pietrus (known playoff performer) had a terrible series, and Lewis (max player [lol]) had a poor offensive series. I dunno if the right move would have been to come off of those guys immediately and put in the players you mentioned way more.

    That's just minute stuff. The bottom line is that they ran into the buzzsaw that was the Celtics, and I don't think you can fault them much for that. Looking at how good the Celtics were throughout the playoffs, I don't think they SHOULD have beaten them.

    I do think SVG was slow to react sometimes, and used Carter too much. OTOH, he absolutely did make strategical changes against Boston. I read from Hollinger that ORL used pick and rolls somewhere around 15 times in the 1st 2 games, but did it upwards of 40 times/game from that point on. Don't you remember Jameer Nelson running through all those double-picks when the Magic finally started competing in the series? If those aren't strategy changes, I don't know what to tell you.

    SVG vs. Woodson? Woodson actively gets IGNORED in his crunch-time timeouts and runs the Joe Johnson iso-only offense.

    Van Gundy has helped develop Howard's post-game tremendously (don't make the mistake of thinking that because Howard looked so off-kilter against the GREAT defending Cs, he didn't do anything since last year), has helped Jameer Nelson become an All-Star from a player with more questions than advantages, etc. SVG developed a team that doesn't get its due credit as one of the best defensive teams in the league, with a sound offensive strategy that unfortunately can bust sometimes, esp against the best of defenses. He ran a truly atypical offense last year with Hedo, and I don't necessarily blame him for the loss. Boston's team was just better, and Vince Carter (Hedo's replacement, mind you) failed to show up whatsoever.

    I really have not ever seen a basketball analyst/expert denounce Van Gundy's coaching job in ORL. In the end, he was 2nd in the league (not just the East) to a team w/ the best player in the league during the regular season, and he ended up 2nd in the East to a team that took the champs to 7 games. That's not much of a failure to me.

    I don't know anything about the picking on me, lol. I feel like I argue w/ your points all the time (and chrono's, though he won't argue back), but its all in good fun, right? You def know what you're talking about, and it's not a terrible thing to have a conversation w/ someone who knows what he's talking about.
     
  13. Hazad

    Hazad Senior member

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    Wade and Bosh together in Miami currently being announced on Mike and Mike.
     
  14. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    Yea, i saw that. Bron hemming and hawing isn't helping.

    Other talks is that Chris Paul who has been asking to be traded for a few months, is in play as well based on lebron going somewhere.

    Bron and paul in jersey?
    bron and paul in cleveland?
    bron and amare in nyc?
    bron and boozer in chicago?

    I wonder if dallas/clippers actually have a chance. Personally i think dallas is the best option for lebron in terms of experience veterans an an owner who will do what it takes. Dirk, butler, kidd, bron is a solid front 4. I think dirk and bron's games compliment each other well too. Texas and florida no state income tax too. I'm sure that helped wade and bosh's decision.

    Thursday night lebron is having a press conference so i guess we'll know then


    As a dream scenario for me, the magic could sign and trade for bron by giving cleveland vince. Vince is technically an expiring contract since it's a team option at the end of this coming season. Wonder if the magic will try to do something like that at the february trade deadline
     
  15. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    Clippers announced vinny del negro is going to be the head coach. I guess we can take them out of the running [​IMG]
     
  16. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    i saw that news that Lebron was announcing the exact date and time of his announcement to maximize exposure. my initial reaction was "what a fucking attention whore," but found out that he's doing it to raise funds/sponsorship for Boys and Girls Club, so he a-ok in my book now
    Wade and Bosh together in Miami currently being announced on Mike and Mike.
    hmm...wonder how reliable their sources are [​IMG] if so, [​IMG]
     
  17. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    Yea, it's official. Chris Broussard announced it. Not overly surprised. Makes sense for both given the relaxing city, no state tax and wade, bosh, chalmers, beasly is a solid core
     
  18. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    The heat will be solid with Bosh. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move beasley, although i doubt they can. what a head case.

    if there are caps set up on a table like what high schoolers do, i'm turning off the TV. just saying. how annoying is a 1 hour TV special just to announce that shit. what the hell are they going to possible say for 58 minutes before his announcement.
     
  19. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    that's really cool. Bosh is a good complement for Wade - he can post up and create his own shot, but also space the floor with his midrange game to leave Wade's driving lanes open. i think they would just need to sign a true center to take some of the defensive and rebounding pressure off him.
     
  20. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    and i give it about a 1% chance of it NOT leaking by 9pm tomorrow. someone between now and tomorrow night will blab and the whole press conference will be ruined except for the boys and girl club who is going to have a nice chunk of cash given to them.
     

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