Navy Hopsack Suit?

[ajv]

whnoofan! = vox ???????

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by whnoofan!

Messr. Buff, I am very interested in your opinions on modern fabric. I have often meditated on the difficult juxtaposition between classic clothing and contemporary social expectations. How have you personally navigated these troubled waters? What fabrics do you consider modern, and how can I learn to identify them?

Few men...perhaps none, at least of the mortal kind...are as modern as Buffy. So, I will defer to his elaborations, which will come shortly.

In the meantime, when the word "modern" is used in the context of fabrics for classically tailored mens clothing, the source for much of the thinking is derived from the Fred M. Wilcox movie Forbidden Planet.

Here is a Norman-descended robot presenting the very first known bolt of modern fabric to the motion picture's Downtown hottie:

Note the following: smoothness; shininess; pure luxury; weight under 10oz.

Here, the robot turns his back on men in matte worsteds of traditional weight:

In this shot, the robot overcomes the Downtown hottie's inherent aversion by holding up a futuristic screen displaying his bank balances:

For the Downtown hottie, this can have a hypnotic effect, especially if the numbers are in dollars and not in the currency of her native Poland.

In this shot, the robot brushes the Downtown hottie's hair, which is a modern thing to do:

In this shot, the robot regales his fellow travelers by showing how to post on the Internet:

Here, Manton programs the robot:

So, as you can see, the influence of Forbidden Planet on the conception of what makes one English suiting cloth modern...and the other not...is quite profound.

Originally Posted by Xiaogou

Corn-rows & manicured toes!

And plucking.


- B

 

[dv3]

I am both humored and slightly confused.

A Polish "downtown hottie" is spot on though, spot on!

 

[whnoofan!]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Note the following: smoothness; shininess; pure luxury; weight under 10oz.

Are these qualities each essential to modern fabric, or merely characteristic? I only ask because I own some suits that possess some of them, but not all. At the very least I would have to confirm my estimations of their weight using a scale. Still, I doubt any are under 10 ounces. Is there a different standard for odd jackets, as they do not include pants?

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Here, Manton programs the robot:

Who is Manton and what do you mean that he is programming the robot? To the extent the robot is representational of Messr. Buff, I am confused by their relationship. Are you suggesting that one is the master of the other?

 

[Mr. Moo]

How could you not know who Manton is while knowing who mafoofan and whnay are? What is this, some charade?

 

[whnoofan!]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moo

How could you not know who Manton is while knowing who mafoofan and whnay are? What is this, some charade?[/

There is a known disorder which prevents some individuals from recognizing and discerning human faces. I have often suspected that I suffer from it.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by whnoofan!

Are these qualities each essential to modern fabric, or merely characteristic? I only ask because I own some suits that possess some of them, but not all. At the very least I would have to confirm my estimations of their weight using a scale. Still, I doubt any are under 10 ounces. Is there a different standard for odd jackets, as they do not include pants?


Good questions.

Again, I will defer to FNB, but here is one man's take on your take:

1. For a cloth to be modern, it does not have to possess all of the core characteristics of smoothness, shininess, pure luxury, and being less than 10oz. Having three, two, or even one of these characterstics...but in excess...can also produce a modern cloth. For example, if you throw an omelete against a cloth, but it slides off easily, could denote that it is very smooth...and very modern. A cloth in the 1oz or 2oz range would also be modern, as would a cloth that is blindingly reflective like a mirror.

2. Some odd jackets include pants, and are known as BlazerSuits.

Originally Posted by whnoofan!

Who is Manton and what do you mean that he is programming the robot? To the extent the robot is representational of Messr. Buff, I am confused by their relationship. Are you suggesting that one is the master of the other?

It's not clear in the movie. Subsequent to the movie's release in 1956, foofans of the movie have tried to decypher the robot's cryptic comments, so far, to no avail.


- B

 

[pablo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

I realized that my hyperbole on that point made it unclear, which is why I took the time to reply to your comments.

I am uncertain of this, but if I were forced to offer an opinion, my current feeling is there really is no viable American "upper" class anymore...it's prior role is (1) more generally diffused among people with money of myriad backgrounds who seek and establish status largely non-dynastically and (2) it's prior role as an object for social ambition has been replaced by mass celebrity culture. "Class" implies sociable habits, which neither of the new groups manifest coherently.



Right. I got sucked in.


- B

I dig your "molecular diffusion" view of class.

Perceptive.

 

[whnoofan!]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Good questions.

Thank you

.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

1. For a cloth to be modern, it does not have to possess all of the core characteristics of smoothness, shininess, pure luxury, and being less than 10oz. Having three, two, or even one of these characterstics...but in excess...can also produce a modern cloth. For example, if you throw an omelete against a cloth, but it slides off easily, could denote that it is very smooth...and very modern. A cloth in the 1oz or 2oz range would also be modern, as would a cloth that is blindingly reflective like a mirror.

I have always been taught not to throw food.

If a 10 ounce suit is luxurious enough to be modern, would an odd jacket need to be 5 ounces to qualify? If both need to be 10 ounces, it seems like the odd jacket has an unfair advantage and we would all do well to wear odd jackets instead of suits.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

2. Some odd jackets include pants, and are known as BlazerSuits.

What stores carry BlazerSuits? Perhaps I will examine one on my next shopping trip. Would Hopsack be appropriate for only the top? If so, what would one make the pants out of? I have always loved cashmere.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

It's not clear in the movie. Subsequent to the movie's release in 1956, foofans of the movie have tried to decypher the robot's cryptic comments, so far, to no avail.

Foofans?

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by whnoofan!

I have read on another forum that one can assess the quality of a fabric by rubbing it between his fingers. Using this method, will I be able to identify the modernistic qualities that you describe?
Rubbing cloth with your fingers can tell you a few things about its properties but is a bad indication about how it will perform as a garment. Part of the reason is because soaking the cloth and its construction and care play an enormous part in cloth longevity, feel and performance. Amongst other things, I would like to see the cloth unfurled and undulated to get a sense of what the industry calls "life". But it is somewhat difficult for someone who doesn't see a lot of cloths made up or doesnt make them up themselves to know how a given cloth will perform.

Originally Posted by whnoofan!

Are you familiar with Michael Alden? It seems that two experts such as yourselves would have a lot to talk about.
This is something of a mechant post but no, I am not that familiar with him. I suppose he provides a service of sorts and he has some devotees. Some of the things he has woven up look good and other items no as inspired.

Originally Posted by whnoofan!

Harrisons is a brand or a type of cloth? I have not seen it in stores.
It's a brand and the division of a textile group. Andrew Rogers has an amazing photographic catalog of many of their fabrics and this humble Harrisons cloth review: Harrisons Cloth Review

 

[Dave83]

Hi i am new to this forum. I work for a bespoke tailors in london called "Thom Sweeney". I wanted to join the forum so i could hopefully offer some advice where i can and also learn a few things. Holland and Sherry make a great hopsack. It's in there Dakota bunch. Loro Piana also do a great 12oz hopsack. Slightly softer and tighter weave than the holland and sherry. Dormeuil also make a nice hopsack. It's in there jet bunch. I have a blazer in this and it is great!!

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Few men...perhaps none, at least of the mortal kind...are as modern as Buffy. So, I will defer to his elaborations, which will come shortly.
Not necessarily. I can imagine people wearing things that I do not, as long as they're nicely made/designed/coordinated. When you learn to make that distinction yourself, you may upgrade from deferrer to participant.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

In the meantime, when the word "modern" is used in the context of fabrics for classically tailored mens clothing, the source for much of the thinking is derived from the Fred M. Wilcox movie Forbidden Planet.
Is it? I dont think it is. Sometimes wearing the same sorts of fabrics we've always worn in rich qualities and combinations is as modern as anything else and sometimes modern has a different meaning. Depends on the crowd and depends on the scene. I understand that someone stuck in a rut with only one crowd or lifestyle wouldn't be capable of imagining a diverse wardrobe but some people mix with very different crowds and need/like to have different clothing looks. It may not be essential but it's an interest of men who like clothes.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Here is a Norman-descended robot presenting the very first known bolt of modern fabric to the motion picture's Downtown hottie
Are we starting ethnic slurs on this thread?

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Are we starting ethnic slurs on this thread?

As race cards go, this one is

 

[set you free]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Not necessarily. I can imagine people wearing things that I do not, as long as they're nicely made/designed/coordinated. When you learn to make that distinction yourself, you may upgrade from deferrer to participant.



Is it? I dont think it is. Sometimes wearing the same sorts of fabrics we've always worn in rich qualities and combinations is as modern as anything else and sometimes modern has a different meaning. Depends on the crowd and depends on the scene.

I understand that someone stuck in a rut with only one crowd or lifestyle wouldn't be capable of imagining a diverse wardrobe but some people mix with very different crowds and need/like to have different clothing looks. It may not be essential but it's an interest of men who like clothes.




Are we starting ethnic slurs on this thread?

I like your posts and think you know more about clothes than most posters put together.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Are we starting ethnic slurs on this thread?

How can imputing Norman ancestry be an "ethnic slur"? Every iGent wishes he had ancestors who "came over with the Conqueror"...or tries to dress the part, anyway.