Mystery Budapest Shoemaker

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

Somebody school me on pegged soles.

what do you want to know?

 

[emptym]

Originally Posted by A Harris

What is going to differentiate this line is customization and available options. The clicker Gabor is working with seems quite willing to try different upper designs, and the maker is offering more options as well, including pegged soles. And there will be a wide variety of leather, including crust leathers.
Good to see you here, A!

 

[comrade]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Something looks "off" with nearly all of these shoes. Can't say I'll be lining up to purchase when the MBS is revealed...

Correct.

 

[Orgetorix]

Originally Posted by Michael Ay329

I was digging this until I saw the throat stitching. Looks very amateurish.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

Somebody school me on pegged soles.
I just looked in on this thread... Pegged soles are almost inevitably stiffer than stitched soles. The pegs themselves create a resistance to flexing. They can be a wick for moisture into the interior of the shoe and they are next to impossible to repair correctly without some experience and preferably the original last. But more than that they are...in my opinion...one of the most destructive methods of outsole attachment in use...and I am, objectively, well-versed in both wearing and making pegged soles. I have pegged a lot of boots in my time including no small number of full pegged replicas of historical construction. And I currently own a pair of full pegged replicas. Every time you drive a peg, a hole is cut...not only in the insole but in the upper leather as well. Generally speaking the practice is to run a double row of pegs at ten to the inch or tighter for maximum holding power. And, yes, they will hold and they will tend to protect the sole from wear....wood being harder than leather. But even in the same shop where they were originally created...with the same last and the same maker...re-pegging that sole is pushing your luck. The initial pegging perforated the insole and the upper, replacing the outsole and pegging anew only makes new perforations in close proximity to the originals. Even if you could, by some extraordinary process, hit the original holes, those holes would not hold the pegs as well as they did originally. Making new holes is almost mandatory. And soon enough the insole...and the upper...is rags. I seriously doubt that two sets of replacement soles is even possible without the use of modern cements in sloppy abundance...and that's just a glue job. Why peg at all then?

 

[Michael Ay329]

DWFII...thanks for the update on the pegged sole

What is the history behind Goyser stitching...was there any benefit against inclemental weather...or is it pure aesthetics?

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by Michael Ay329

DWFII...thanks for the update on the pegged sole What is the history behind Goyser stitching...was there any benefit against inclemental weather...or is it pure aesthetics?
That's a question for Marcel or someone else. I recognize the craftsmanship and skill it takes to do Goiser, but I've never done it and have no desire to do it. I think...personal opinion...that it is too busy.

 

[srivats]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I think...personal opinion...that it is too busy.

You said personal opinion, so here is mine : I think that done right, they look really nice and very unique ... and not busy. I have recently bought a shoe with this stitching to see it for myself and it confirmed what I said above. Ofcourse I will never have it on a balmoral to be worn with a suit.

 

[Michael Ay329]

I'm debating doing Goyser stitching on my Budapester monk strap...likely a double leather sole, or whether to ditch it and do the monk on a single leather sole...comments/advice are welcome

 

[srivats]

^ Goyser stitching looks best on open-laced derbys, preferably brogued. Monks are more on the formal side, so I suggest keeping it simple.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

I was digging this until I saw the throat stitching. Looks very amateurish.

have a look again.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I just looked in on this thread...

Pegged soles are almost inevitably stiffer than stitched soles. The pegs themselves create a resistance to flexing. They can be a wick for moisture into the interior of the shoe and they are next to impossible to repair correctly without some experience and preferably the original last.

...i never felt a difference.

...never happened to me.

...experience is needed. original last. i doubt it. i just recently had a repair at a different place, than the original maker. no problem at all.

i am sure that your paragraph is based on personal experience. imo it is biased and totally misleading, especially for the i-gents.

it's totally obvious, that opposite to a welted construction, you do not use the original holes for the "re"-pegging. just a plain "idiot" or an untrained person would do this.

just my two cents.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Michael Ay329

DWFII...thanks for the update on the pegged sole

What is the history behind Goyser stitching...was there any benefit against inclemental weather...or is it pure aesthetics?

it's a functional thing coming from hiking boots, which found his way to the boulevards of budapest and vienna.

the history: www.goiserer.at, among all the legends, kaiser franz joseph's hunting boots have been goiserer.

with your frame. a double sole and goyser(270 degrees) welt works well. imo, a monk is less formal and more casual than a derby. monks are rather unpopular, at least in austria. it's a car salesman shoe.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by fritzl

...i never felt a difference. ...never happened to me. ...experience is needed. original last. i doubt it. i just recently had a repair at a different place, than the original maker. no problem at all. i am sure that your paragraph is based on personal experience. imo it is biased and totally misleading, especially for the i-gents. it's totally obvious, that opposite to a welted construction, you do not use the original holes for the "re"-pegging. just a plain "idiot" or an untrained person would do this. just my two cents.
Think about it, Fritzl. Apply a little logic. The outsole has to bend, What's more, it has to bend at a different rate and in a different curve than the insole...this is known as the "orange peel effect." And it has to bend along its horizontal axis. But the pegs bond the insole and outsole together vertically. The very rigidity of the pegs, combined with the number of them used, prevents the insole and outsole from bending separately. If you add rigidity to the outsole how can it not be more rigid than without? What's more, because the pegs are "vertical fasteners" they resist bending in the horizontal plane. Evidence of both of these aspects of pegged work can be seen when you go to replace a pegged sole--the original holes have been enlarged by the flexing action of the outer and inner soles upon the rigid pegs. This happens even more conspicuously with nails or tacks. "Cut iron" tacks--lasting tacks--will actually continue to cut the leather around them for the life of the shoe. When you have a pair of shoes repaired or rebuilt...you (the customer) don't see the damage. You don't pull the outsole off and look at the vamp leather with its many holes cut into the the margin that secures the vamp to the insole. All you see is the finished...apparently magically restored...outsole. But the damage is done, and it is there even if you don't see it. As for the original holes...its a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. When the outsole is originally pegged the maker decides how far from the edge of the outsole to run his first row of pegs. That in turn, determines how far from the edge the insole the pegs will be. If the pegs are close to the edge of a closely trimmed outsole, the job will look tight and neat. If they are too far away the chance that the vamp will pull the insole away from the outsole increases. So, now you intend to repair the shoes...where do these new rows of pegging go? Close to the edge of the outsole to fasten the outsole and insole closely and neatly (at the risk of pegging into old holes)? Or further from the edge of the outsole to find virgin insole leather to peg into? And when you--Fritzl--pull the outsole to replace it, what will you find? What do you think you will find? How many times can you perforate a piece of leather with a fairly substantial awl before there is no area that is not in tatters? How far from the edge of the outsole can you move your subsequent rows of pegging before you just have a couple of completely non-functional rows down the middle? The fact that pegs will wick moisture up into the shoe should not come as a surprise--wood must have a capillary function in order for the tree to survive. In fact, for pegs to work correctly and hold well, the wood itself must constantly be sucking moisture up into the leather. It is well documented that in dry climates pegs will literally fall out. I peg every pair of boots I make. I like pegging. I own and wear pegged boots...even full pegged boots. But I have seen what is under the replacement sole.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by fritzl

it's a functional thing coming from hiking boots, which found his way to the boulevards of budapest and vienna. the history: www.goiserer.at, among all the legends, kaiser franz joseph's hunting boots have been goiserer. with your frame. a double sole and goyser(270 degrees) welt works well. imo, a monk is less formal and more casual than a derby. monks are rather unpopular, at least in austria. it's a car salesman shoe.
What function does it serve? What function that is not just as readily served by a simple stitch? I am genuinely interested in knowing...school me.