my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  2. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    You might, because you are more of a odd jacket guy yourself. Nearly all of the jackets in the next batch are from the spectacular (defunct now, of course) run of jacketings that the Lessers had Barbera make.

    The jackets and pants from the cord suits were meant to also be worn as separates, so perhaps an early odd jacket NSM ensemble will make an appearence.


    I might be in a minority on this, but I don't buy the "refine the pattern" over time meme. It should be right the first time. Later changes should just be stylistic or adaptations to the aging customer as needed. At least, this has been my experience.

    I've said this before and I still believe it: pattern making for bespoke clothes has objectives less exact than pattern making for RTW. The whole point with what we conventionally call the bespoke process is to fit each item of clothing on the body at time points in the make that cannot be effectively or economically done with RTW. Bespoke patterns are cut with substantial allowances at key points, both to allow flexibility in fitting the actual garment on the actual man at an actual point of time, and also to allow for alterations taking into account that most guys get fatter and more stooped as they age since traditionally bespoke clothes are worn for a long time.

    Some of you will recall that In the A&S expats thread in which I posted intermediate stage fitting photographs at which certain adjustments are pinned or chalked, the shoulders on my Steeds are generally broader at fitting. This is because Edwin's preference is to see how the actual jacket, with its particular fabric and cut, settles on me before he and I determine the final proportion.

    A bespoke pattern has to be sufficiently imprecise to allow for variances in fabric at the very least. A heavy cord suit does not cut or fit the same way as a light, spongey worsted (to use the two examples that I posted in this thread.) This range belies the "refinement over time" meme, particularly if one is concerned about fit and is dealing with a maker who is meticulous about it from the beginning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  3. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    :)
     
  4. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    I'll say that's the ideal, but it doesn't always happen.
     
  5. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It has more to do with the fitter than the pattern. Custom is manipulating/adjusting the pattern to the body in sync with the type of cloth you use.
     
  6. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    Good point!
     
  7. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    There is a new barchetta? What is different? I haven't noticed.
     
  8. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    I think the new barchetta is nicer
     
  9. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Had my first fitting yesterday, jacket looks so good I commissioned two more! ;)
     
  10. quar

    quar Senior member

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    FC, how are the NSM shirts treating you?
     
  11. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    MBT has always been my favorite. Steed second, NSM third. However, I think that it is hard to compare NSM and Steed. I just think that they are suitable for entirely different situations.

    Do you still commission anything from MBT Voxy? I remember hearing you say at some point that you were phasing out your old MBT stuff for Steed [and now NSM].
     
  12. gdl203

    gdl203 Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Yes. More slope and more curve
     
  13. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    As I see it, the notion of "refining" a bespoke pattern "over time" presumes that the entire sequence isn't already entirely encapsulated in the first item. It is (or should be.) I repeat:it is (or should be.)

    Like all craft, it is of course bounded by the skill and work ethic of the craftsman.

    The whole point of a bespoke pattern is to take things to the stage at which the in-person fitting process can be most effectively and efficiently pursued. And no more. To make it more "precise" than that is a Pyhric victory at best since what you might achieve is a limitation of fitting options in situ. The smoothest hand-off of the role of the pattern to that of the role of a bespoke fitting lies at a form that is less precise than RTW pattern making.

    Again, my thoughts run contrary to the sentiments of the majority, but there it is.

    When the bespoke maker is skillful and the customer worldly, yet the result suboptimal, the fault lies not in the degree of perfection of the pattern. The fault lies either in the shyness oc the customer or the reluctance of maker to acknowledge and correct what he sees to be wrong because of the cost of time and material.

    Such a relationship is seldom improved with time and repetition.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  14. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    ^ I think that makes sense. It seems like people are describing the same type of thing in terms of fit adjustments to bespoke garments as they progress just at slightly different stages.
     
  15. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    You make the assumption that everyone can perfectly visualize the final product and know how they will like it. I don't know how I really like something until I have used it for a while. sometimes I like something I didn't expect. Other times I don't like something I thought I would like. Hence refinement, or evolution if you prefer.
     

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