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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    I heard seam seepage attracts moths, and bedbugs. Buyer beware.
     
  2. dfoverdx

    dfoverdx Well-Known Member

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    This is also my recent experience with Formosa... Simply the cutter thinks that the suit fits great but it's too tight in the waist (i told him in first fitting , he said yes yes but i think he was thinking that once the vents opened it would be good but it's far from being sufficiant) i also told them to shorthen sleeve length and they returned exactly same and they are telling me that last time i said sleeves are ok , overall after first fitting they finished the jacket. they didn't change anything.
    As a civilized person it's really hard to argue with these uncivilized italian guys... I also had same problem with Panico.. Again it's impossible to communicate with these guys. Dino may be like those guys, i don't know
    I had a great experience with Solito, he's very nice and tries to do a proper fitting. He says what he's doing and he's asking if it's ok for me. As i said i am not going to argue with these people, obviously i lost some money as the suits ended up somewhat bad fitting (good quality, bad fit) but i really don't care too much simply i am not returning to these guys but will visit Solito in the future.
     
  3. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Again...I know you're recounting your experience with somebody else and then saying that Dino "may be like those guys, I don't know"...but just to reiterate and emphasize again, neither Dino nor Mina has ever pressured me into accepting something that I didn't feel comfortable in. I've never heard of them saying anything stronger than, "if you are unsure, if you'd like you can take it now and try it out for a while, and then give it back to us if you want something changed."

    In any case I can only imagine the distress that mingling with savages might cause a civilized person such as yourself. Although my communicative speech limited to grunts and gnashing of teeth, somehow Dino and I manage to understand each other. I can only imagine that the possibilities expand for those with a more complete vocabulary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
    4 people like this.
  4. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Well-Known Member

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    Quote:Given that you sound like a complete ass, Panico and Formosa must be rejoicing at the news of your decision.
     
    4 people like this.
  5. TheTukker

    TheTukker Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol: :nodding:
     
  6. Victor Elfo

    Victor Elfo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Looks like Vox is already getting garments with some modifications, regarding the "pa-fucked" shoulder line. What we're seeing now, in my opinion, is his trapezius in a very unpadded jacket.
     
  7. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    That jacket looks great.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. dopey

    dopey Well-Known Member

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    So does the pasta
     
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree. The pa-fucked shoulders are still there. Vox has made a point of showing us that his Steed jackets are unpadded in the shoulders. Yet, no pa-fuckedness. So, NSM is still doing something wrong.

    Also, I'm not sure what you guys admire about the rest of the jacket. No, it is not a monstrosity. But the shaping, particularly around the chest, is ill-defined at best and haphazard at worst. The beauty of good bespoke is the way a jacket or suit can appear thoughtfully sculpted in all dimensions, not just cut to impart a particular two-dimensional silhouette.

    In my opinion, Vox's Steed jackets are leagues and leagues superior. The only thing to be said for the NSM stuff is that it is "Neapolitan." But is that a plus in and of itself? Honestly, I would have guessed the jacket in that photo is a nicely fitting RTW or MTM specimen, not bespoke.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  10. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    Vox's stuff from Steed, IMO, is completely different than what he gets from NSM. I'm not sure they can be compared as one being better or worse than the other. Yes, his Steed stuff is more sculpted and draped in the chest, but that doesn't mean that any jacket without a sculpted or draped chest is "ill defined at best and haphazard at worst." If you take that view, then most tailors in England and Italy are terrible.

    FWIW, regarding the previous critiques, there's no glue in my jacket (my seam allowances look exactly like Unbel's photos), I don't think NSM's shoulders are bad (which, FME, look more like Canta's than the wavier line on Vox), and Dino and Mina have provided me with nothing but excellent service (they're friendly, charming, and always eager to please). That's not to say Foo's critiques are wrong or Carl is mistaken. Just that their critiques don't resonate at all with my experience.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  11. A Y

    A Y Well-Known Member

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    Haven't NSM used different tailors in the past? Perhaps they no longer employ the hot-glue tailor. SG:chambray :: NSM:tailors?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  12. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe he ever made that claim. Sub 'lightly' for 'un-' and you'd be on the right track.
     
  13. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    I can't say for Vox's Steed jackets - it's possible that he asked for a different kind of construction - but on my Steeds, for which I didn't direct them away from the house style, there is WAY more stuff in the shoulder line than on my NsM jackets. I don't know if what's in there would be called padding or wadding or what, but there is definitely significantly more of it than what's in my NsM jackets. The Steed is still soft relative to what you'd probably find in most coats, but it's not even close to the lightness of a NsM coat.
     
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say a jacket needs a draped chest to be well-executed. I said the chest area of the NSM jacket in that photo is poorly shaped. You can call that sculpting if you like. The point is, the chest area of a jacket should be thoughtfully shaped in all three dimensions. That is true regardless of the school of tailoring, be it more soft and light or more heavy and structured.

    There seems to be a trend of excusing all of NSM's faults on the basis that it is somehow unique and should not be judged by any standards. Dubious.
     
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Vox explicitly stated there is no padding in his Steed shoulders. He did a squeeze demonstration to illustrate.

    Anyway, I think you all need to stop excusing the pa-fucked NSM shoulders on the basis of the amount or placement of wadding/padding. The bottom line is that the resulting shape is bad and reflects a poorly executed natural shoulder. Whatever is to blame, there is no excuse for not fixing it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  16. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Well-Known Member

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    You're getting tripped up by Vox's preference for the term wadding. The distinction is, in this regard, meaningless.

    While i dont like it as much standing in front of a mirror, I can tell you that the Mina shoulder moves better (and I imagine looks better in action) than anything else I've experienced. I'm of the opinion that any attempt to make it look better standing still would detract from that.
     
  17. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not getting tripped up by anything. First of all, both Vox and I, as many others, use the two terms to make the same distinction. Second, I am tweet debating with him right now. Literally minutes ago, he explicitly reiterated that his Steed jackets have zero padding in the shoulder, and only some wadding near the scye. As you see in Rubinacci, and pretty much any other soft, natural shouldered jacket.

    I don't understand how the upturn, which is hideous while stationary, suddenly looks good when moving. Is it because the motion blur makes it harder to see? I understand the concept of tailoring looking good in motion versus standing still. That has always been a standard marketing line of Mariano's. However, engineering a jacket to look good while moving does not justify wrongness when it is not. I have never been told by Mariano or Gennaro or anyone else at LH to ignore a flaw because it won't show when I'm moving around. It's not like the upturn in the NSM jackets has pixie dust that makes it easier for you to move. It is extra cloth (and maybe wadding) that doesn't even need to be there.

    Really, there is no excuse. Every other notable tailor known for natural shoulders seems capable of evading the NSM artifact. Face it--it is a mistake. You can love it if you like, just like a mother can love an ugly baby. But it's still ugly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  18. 9thsymph

    9thsymph Well-Known Member

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    I've lurked for a long time. I've thought very hard about what what I might post first. Here it is:

    Foo, please let those who have purchased suits from NsM simply enjoy their clothes.

    I think you have made your point (over and over again). Not only do you think the shoulder is ugly, it is a mistake. Others obviously disagree. Fine. I think folks get it.

    Your status as an expert on the matter can be challenged thusly: There are more than a few pictures of you on this forum, in 'neopolitan' clothing, that would be very easy to ridicule as flawed in terms of both aesthetics and tailoring (I bring this up as relevant because your relationship with rubinacci has been referenced frequently). In fact, on your own tweed in the city blog you have a photo that exhibits the exact same shoulder line (convex leading to bump and then concave etc...and a distinctly bowed chest to boot), as the NsM line you loathe. It is in the archive of your trip to see Ambrosi, to whom you elevate to mythic tailoring status. And since we are talking about authenticity and pedigree and such. Let me reference something from that same archive. You say:

    "It’s said he is a true artist and will charge you a price befitting your character. If you are judged a truly dishonest man (the worst thing a man can be), Ambrosi will make you wait years before finally presenting you with the trouser he’s made, then let you touch and feel them, so that you are absolutely convinced a finer pair of trousers does not exist in the world and never could, before suddenly ripping them from your hands and cutting them to shreds with his monstrous, ancient shears right before your eyes. Ambrosi is no peddler of wares, no merchant of goods. He’s not interested in your money. He gives and takes exactly what you deserve. Ambrosi, you’ll hear, does not suffer fools.

    How did that turn out?

    I know you think you are helping by pointing out the NsM flaw, but I AM CERTAIN BY NOW THAT YOUR POINT HAS BEEN DULY NOTED.

    BTW, I have seen these types of shoulders on many jackets (and someone else already posted a Solito with the same characteristics).

    Enjoy your own clothes as superior, but stop spitting in everyone else's soup!
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    That grey jacket you refer to is not Rubinacci. It is Oxxford MTM. I was in Naples precisely for the purpose of replacing it (and my other Oxxford jackets). It has the upturn because the padding was removed after Oxxford made the shoulders wrong. Hence, the armhole is too big and high, creating the artifact. I've explained this again and again. It is a poorly executed jacket. If the NSM shoulders are similar in any way, well . . .

    Honestly, if you cannot look at that jacket and instantly recognize it isn't Rubinacci, I'm not sure what position you're in to determine whether a tailoring issue is worth debating or not.
     
  20. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Well-Known Member

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    I would hardly call this thread a 'debate'. A fatuous rant would be more apt.
     

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