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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Loathing

    Loathing Senior member

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    We can all agree on this. Does Mina not have a surname?

    As for the shoulders: NSM suffers from a comparable problem to Tom Ford (albeit less extreme). The problem is clearly the product of trying make the shoulder as light as possible whilst trying to avoid that droopy effect seen on much of Rubinacci's stuff.
     
  2. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    All of mine are cut pretty tight to the shoulder too, no extension at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  3. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Really? I think all of mine are extended.
     
  4. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    Please read through this thread, I cannot remember who, but someone in here talked about Dino convincing him to accept delivery even though the jacket was tight and he took it to his local alteration tailor for letting it out and other examples to that effect.
    When I buy bespoke I also expect a lifelong service on the garments. I have taken both jackets and trousers for alteration and other service (eg. Re-stitching a trouser cuff that came loose) for free. I would not take any of my bespoke garments at any local tailor, let the original tailor deal with it.
     
  5. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Yep - shoulder seam is right where by shoulder bone (I guess acromion?) ends.
     
  6. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have been charged quite a bit for alterations and repair work by one Savile Row tailor. I didn't mind being charged for the repair work (it was actually cleaning), but I did mind being charged for the alterations (different coat) because it was a coat whose fit I never really liked and still don't. That is among the reasons I stopped using them.

    I am surprised Dino told someone to take their coat and have it altered locally. That is inconsistent with how I have been treated - would you mind finding the post as I don't really know what I am looking for? If true, that is too bad and a mistake on their part.
     
  7. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    If we're thinking of the same poster, I believe the person in question had the same experience as me - the suggestion that the client try it out if they were unsure with the possibility of then bringing it back, but also a willingness to take it back then if that's what the client wanted.

    Again, just to reiterate: NsM has NEVER asked me to use a local alterations tailor. I have brought back plenty of things for alteration, they have always accepted happily.

    To clarify, Steed, which has, also offered to reimburse me for the charges on the trouser hem.
     
  8. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Aren't you local or at least in Europe? For those of us across the Atlantic you have to decide what is best done via the original tailor or what is okay to do locally. For example I have had the waist of my pants altered locally because I didn't want have to wait.
     
  9. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Some of the local alterations aside I tend to agree with what marco is saying - as a general rule if you are going to partake in bespoke you need to be fully committed. For me that has meant trips to Europe for fittings and, at least initially, patience. It is obvious that NsM is popular for a reason - it makes (to a degree) inaccessible goods accessible. It is not without its limitations, however, and from the pics I've seen on this thread, along with the stories from several posters, the results are uneven. I think that is only to be expected - there is no substitute for dealing directly with the tailor / cutter.
     
  10. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Without taking sides, I think Foo's point about the shoulder is that it isn't intentional. If it's not intentional, NsM shouldn't have to wait for the customer to identify it and ask for a correction.
     
  11. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    working with Solito requires trips to europe and even then you never know!
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have never seen one in person, and red lines aside, it is hard for me to tell what they really look like or whether it is something anyone would notice or care about. One of the worst offenders identified in this thread is actually a non-NSM RTW coat. There is a bit of a frenzy on this issue, but at the moment, I feel that I simply have no idea what I am looking at. Extrapolating from 2D photos and limited camera angles to the point where I can assume there is a persistent problem isn't something I am prepared to do, though I can also acknowledge that it may show something. I would feel more certain if I saw one in person or someone said "yes - my NSM shoulders point up at the tips." You may recall that Foo drew red lines all over medtech's coats, but medtech seemed very happy with them and never noticed anything. As I think about it, Vox may be the only person who wants the shoulders corrected and it is not clear he saw the problem at first either (or even that he thinks it is a mistake rather than a preference he doesn't share). Which is not to say that there may be an issue with some shoulders. Clearly though, there are many people for whom there is no shoulder issue at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  13. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Yep. Sometimes I really wish I had just settled in with someone local. I really envy the people who are loyal Ercole customers, but for some reason, I have never felt the draw. I really liked Raphael at first, but even before he took ill, there were too many issues.
     
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have often used the analogy of language to communicate ideas about style, tailoring, etc. Whnay touches on that point when he mentions the importance of "pedigree." I like the language analogy better, but the idea is similar: in tailoring, we deal with pre-established traditions, most of which were firmly developed a long time ago. There are chiefly two sorts of deviation from those traditions:

    1. Purposeful attempts at innovation. Such deviations demand not to be judged by traditional norms. The tailor is trying to create a new language.
    2. Deviations that are not purposeful. They happen by mistake. The tailor has made a grammatical error speaking the language he is obviously attempting to speak.

    The problem I have with the NSM shoulder is that it is clearly the second sort of deviation. You only have to ask yourself: is Napoli Su Misura trying to sell a "Neapolitan" suit, or just new kind of suit that only happens to be made around Naples? I think the answer is obvious. Earlier I was accused of calling NSM fraudulent. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think they are genuinely attempting to sell a "Neapolitan" suit--but that is exactly why I think the shoulders are particularly egregious. I know of no reputed tailoring house in the world that makes shoulders like the upturned, unpadded ones we often see from NSM, and they are certainly not anything I've seen consistently produced by another Neapolitan tailor. Marco can confirm or deny if he likes. On a RTW jacket, they would be an unabashed eff-up.

    We need to be careful about relativizing all judgment to the point of total meaninglessness. Yes, there are different "languages." Yes, there are different ways to speak them. And yes, it can be hard to make them out. However, any opinion of tailoring is dead from the onset if it does not grapple with a tailor's relationship to tradition.


    Mariano is not a good example. Luigi Solito himself complimented Mariano as being a better fitter than most tailors in Naples.

    That said, absolute best results always come from seeing Mariano/Luca with your cutter in attendance.


    Well, partially yes. A good tailor won't catch all mistakes automatically. Sometimes the client has to bring them to attention. That takes some skill and judgment on the part of the client.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  15. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    I agree there is a benefit by going to the source but it is not an option for everyone. I visited Naples to adjust my first coat and fit the second.
     
  16. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    How about Paul Winston? Are they no more? I know you have stuff by him.
     
  17. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I guess what I'm saying is that if its not an option for you (and you don't view tailoring as high stakes gambling) you shouldn't do it. Or at least you should manage your expectations accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  18. Knowledge is King

    Knowledge is King Senior member

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    As recently as last year he gave me a quick sales pitch to make a suit for me. I was just picking up some ties though so I didn't really get very far into the conversation with him.
     
  19. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Then again is style is somewhat distinctive. Somewhat meaning he will do anything you want, but it just feels wrong not getting something "trad" or at least very old school American.
     
  20. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    He is great, but his main product is not really bespoke and not the same caliber of construction (I think it is Greenfield, but I am not sure). I like it for Ivy-style summer stuff and the occasional Ivy style tweed sportcoat. On the other hand, I think of NSM in the same way - it is an idiosyncratic niche product, but not the backbone of my wardrobe (not counting the shirts, for which I do think of them as my main supplier).
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013

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