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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Senior member

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  2. Butler

    Butler Senior member

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    I will leave it to you learned gentelmen to continue the search for the cause and sufffice to let you in on the cure:


    1 minute with an iron make the "problem" go away completely and there you have it; the neapolitan camicia shoulder!!!: :bigstar:
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  3. comrade

    comrade Senior member

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    I believe that you are exactly correct. In fact, to me the Mina "absence of padding" looks like nascent "pagoda shoulders"

    http://www.mensflair.com/style-advice/suit-shoulders-the-rope-shoulder-and-pagoda.php
     
  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Whenever a tailor tells you to "fix" something by ironing it, he means: "Umm. Yeah, so I'm not even going to acknowledge there's an issue, because that would require me to actually fix it. I'd rather just fuck with you."
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Ha, well, if I happen to by in San Francisco at the time, or if you want to fly me out there, I'm game.

    However, I really think the easiest way is just to point out the issue on your own. It sounds like Mina is eager to fix problems.
     
  6. Butler

    Butler Senior member

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    Excuse me!! No tailor has ever told me to "fix" anything and none have had the urge to fuck with me!!! - I just noticed the "problem" when unpacking, and thought it would be a thing caused by the transport, took the iron to it and problem solved. As others have mentioned, not all NSM coats have this issue, in my case one of three. :bigstar:
     
    2 people like this.
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I was being somewhat facetious. Suggestions like, "that can be ironed," or "it will disappear with wear," do tend to be tailor-bullshit. Sometimes, however, the advice is genuine.

    Anyway, the fact that this styling "feature" is only on some of your NSM jackets tends to indicate it is indeed an error, not a purposeful choice. It should be self-evident just by looking at it. If your tailor wants to contrive a concave shoulder shape, such as a pagoda, one would expect the curvature to be smooth and clearly defined. Such is obviously attainable (as in a pagoda). I think it's far more insulting to NSM to suggest that they intend to create a choppy, erratic shoulder line, than it is to suggest they might not be adapting their patterns properly. Every tailor makes mistakes, but poor taste isn't fixable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  8. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    After tens of thousands spent on surgeries and drug regimens, as well as hundreds of hours of therapy, all to no effect, I can offer myself as unfortunate evidence of this eternal truth.
     
    6 people like this.
  9. Loathing

    Loathing Senior member

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    Dear God, Fan, you really are being intolerably obtuse in this thread. You're writing the same crap about pagoda shoulders and shoulder inversion as you were 50 pages ago. Do you actually read what other people write? Clearly, as demonstrated abundantly, the issue is not an overabundance of wadding; nor is it a stillborn pagoda shoulder; so why do you keep repeating yourself? You're displaying signs of Asperger's syndrome. Have you been diagnosed with same?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  10. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    :crackup:
     
  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not the one being obtuse.

    No amount of technical explanation justifies the way the NSM shoulder looks. As a client, it's up to you to inform your tastes and judge whether your tailor has given you good work. You don't write-off an ugly result simply because he tells you the wadding makes it happen, or that wearing it for a few months will make the divots go away, etc. As anyone who's worked with a tailor knows, you have to be on your feet. It's a tricky line to walk. Obviously, the tailor is the professional in the relationship and is bound to know more than you when it comes to technical matters. However, no one is more in-line with your own incentives than you. So, you need to artfully bridge the gap between your tailor's expertise and his disinclination to fix problems he can more easily convince you aren't problems. You do this by learning enough to understand what is technically possible and what isn't.

    Well, I know enough--as do many others who have quietly confirmed by e-mail or PM on this matter--to judge that the NSM shoulder line, whatever causes it, is not an inevitable result of any kind of tailoring. All the offered explanations don't pass muster. Whether the presence or amount of wadding causes it is neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is quite plain: the misshapen shoulder, no matter what causes it, has happened. It shouldn't have. Whatever the wadding's role, it should be adjusted to effect a proper shape. If it isn't the wadding, then whatever variable that is to blame should be attended to instead. Something needs fixing. How do I know? Because the shoulder line is ugly, inconsistently implemented, does not represent an existing species of shoulder expression, and is by no means a foregone technical conclusion.

    Honestly, Styleforum was a better and more useful place when it centered on discussion between knowledgeable, experienced bespoke clients. We don't need professional opinions from tailors nearly as much. You have your own tailor for that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  12. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    FWIW, I've found taping chicken cutlets to my shoulders makes the bump go away (just don't go right up to the end of your shoulder, as that will make the problem worse).

    Probably not helpful for vegans, but still ...

    (Note, I am a qualified bespoke client)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
    6 people like this.
  13. JPHardy

    JPHardy Senior member

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    Spalla Cotolleta?

    I'm going to recommend veal for a less pronounced shoulder.
     
  14. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    Wore my NSM jacket today for a long day of travel (including, incidentally, on a short taxi ride through Naples).

    it moves better than anything else I've tried. The overall lightness and high armhole make for ideal suitcase toting apparel.
     
  15. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

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    I was literally thinking the exact same thing just now lol. My steed jacket moves better in that the collar hugs my body better when moving but the NSM is a bit more comfortable imo
     
  16. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    But what about the shoulder expression? Did it bother you to wear such a flawed garment? :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. MrChris

    MrChris Senior member

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    1st bespoke suit (Ipad picture quality unfortunately)...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Details:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    5 people like this.
  18. Knowledge is King

    Knowledge is King Senior member

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    Based on these pics, this suit might be my favorite NSM suit in this thread. The details are sort of hard to discern in the photos, but this doesn't look like a lot of the other NSM stuff posted here. Did you let them do their thing or did you give them particular instructions?
     
  19. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sorry. Foo will be unhappy about the collar shoulder join.
     
  20. taxgenius

    taxgenius Senior member

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    The left shoulder has the bump/wave.
     

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