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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by medtech_expat, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    however that effect happens, it's not padding. at least not in mine.
     
  2. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    The difference between the two is where the concavity occurs. In Vox, it is after the shoulder blade to the sleevehead. In Foo, it is from the neck to the shoulder blade. I can't say what causes it, but my guess would be that its their shoulders rather than anything to do with the make of the garment (other than the lack of any wadding to straighten the line). In both instances, it looks sloppy to me.
     
  3. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

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    Interesting. If there's any concavity between Foo's neck and shoulder blade, then it seems to be caused by the collar meeting the shoulder and not the shoulder itself.
     
  4. johanm

    johanm Senior member

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    In mafoofan's pic, the "concavity" you see is actually the collar/lapel, not the shoulder line.
     
  5. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    Nope. The collar sits on the rest of the jacket. It isn't floating above the neck. And on Foo's jacket, you can see the concavity before the collar begins. Look at Mariano's jacket that Foo posted above. That shows you how the same collar looks on a completely convex neckline (Mariano's jacket does in fact have a completely convex shoulder).
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  6. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Saving this for later use.
     
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The collar should be concave, as that is how your neck curves into your shoulders. It is messed up if not, as you wind up with an abrupt and sharp transition from neck to shoulder. It's after where the collar ends, where what I am calling the shoulder line begins, that I am talking about. I don't see in any of my pics where the shoulder line inverts curvature--switching from convex to concave.

    Look at the examples I showed. I think the red lines make it pretty clear what I'm talking about.

    And for the thousandth time: none of these NSM shoulder lines are pagodas. A pagoda line is fully concave, from neck to shoulder point. There is no name for what is happening in the NSM examples--a good indication it is a mistake. You don't ever ask your tailor to give you a natural shoulder that gives up halfway through and becomes something else. Honestly, I'm really having trouble understanding how anybody can consider this "look" defensible.

    Incidentally, my old MTM Oxxford stuff had this problem. In that case, they simply removed all the padding/wadding when I told them I wanted a natural shoulder, leaving extra room over my shoulder ends. I suspect, structurally, a similar problem is occurring with NSM, though the reason for is most probably different.
     
  8. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    Blow up the picture and draw the red line on your shoulder then. You will see it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  9. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    +100
     
  10. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    You guys are fucking crazy. And I mean that in the most complimentary way.
     
    3 people like this.
  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It really isn't hard to notice. That you can see it on virtually all NSM jackets, regardless of the crappy photo quality, is pretty telling.

    At the end, if you want to pretend it's nothing, whatever. But you are paying good money for this stuff. It is an error and should be attended to.
     
  14. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    Yawn. This is truly starting to get ridiculous.

    Foo: Fwiw, I agree that it's an issue. but it's one that's not evident in real life. I can assure you the only people who'll ever even notice this (and even then, its unlikely) are hardcore iGents.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  15. JPHardy

    JPHardy Senior member

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    Damn funny.
     
  16. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You know, one of the things that distinguishes good tailoring is how well the shoulder is executed. It doesn't have to be done any one particular way to be valid (pagoda versus natural versus straight, etc.), but whatever approach is chosen can be done better or worse. If you are paying for a bespoke product, this is exactly the sort of thing to pay attention to. It is not nitpicking at all.

    So again, take note:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  17. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I'm just messing with you Matt.

    Being serious again, I didn't know that was the bump you were talking about. I thought you meant the one that everyone sees on NSM jackets and yours from Rubinacci. The one you're talking about I actually don't mind, and kind of like, in fact. I think gives a masculine effect. The one everyone sees on previous NSM jackets and your Rubinacci I like less, and was planning to bring it up with Dino, but am now having second thoughts. I mean, really how would one even bring it up?

    Me: "Dino, there's a small bump in my shoulder line, and I was wondering if you could fix it."

    Dino: "I don't see a bump?"

    Me: "I know, I know. It's very hard to tell now, but let me pose like a robot, then you can step back about fifteen feet and take a photo of me. We can then upload the photo onto a laptop I've brought. It will be very obvious once you see it on my computer."
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  18. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Evidently we are all talking about different things.

    The shoulder on most NSM seems to blow-up for no explicable reason approaching the sleevehead. You really like that? I've never seen it anywhere else where it wasn't considered a mistake. I really sincerely don't think Mina or Dino intend it.
     
  19. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    But if this feature is on most NSM shoulders could it perhaps be intentional? Perhaps they feel it adds a certain panache. Not right or wrong, just different.
     
  20. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It would be extremely odd. It looks like an error you'd see on a jacket that has been de-padded, but was designed to be padded. The issue occurs on ill-fitting RTW all the time. I see no reason to suddenly like it on bespoke simply because it might have been purposeful (which I doubt).

    Generally, tailors don't do well at inventing entirely new things, as this stuff has been around for generations and generations. If it hasn't been done and it doesn't have a name, it's probably not a good idea. Anyway, why go out of your way to use a "Neapolitan" tailor if you are going to wind up with a new sort of animal no one's seen before?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013

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