My barneys ny/ kiton, struggle!

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Urban Warrior, Oct 3, 2004.

  1. Urban Warrior

    Urban Warrior Senior member

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    Well, I finally took home my 1st Kiton suit today. Towards the end of July I picked up what I thought at the time to be a great deal a 100% cashmere Kiton suit at Barneys on sale from $5,500 to about $1,600. At the time I had some concerns about the quality of Barneys tailoring based on what I had read here and on Andy's site. While the suit was on hold that day I actually stopped in Kiton to inquire about Barneys and because of my limit experience with Kiton verify that the original price of $5,500 was not inflated to make the sale seem much better...I was assured at Kiton that Barneys had more than one Kiton master tailor to handle only the Kiton suits...Feeling a bit better I quickly hurried back to Barneys to purchase the suit. I was introduced to the "Kiton Tailor" who only wanted to shorten the sleeves on the jacket. Let out the waist a 1/4 on an inch and give me a little more room in the seat. So far so good. I asked why the jacket fit so boxy in the mid-section, with a rather large fold of cloth running from just under the arm up the shoulder blade? The salesman and tailor both laughed and went on about how this was classic Kiton etc...Almost had me until the tailor said "This must be your 1st Neapolitain suit" I remarked how my Borelli lacked such folds and fit much better...Should have ran out the door when the salesman told me the two were very different cuts. Not wanting to get into much an argument I nicely added how that was odd considering Borelli had hired some of Kitons better workers and they both had almost identical details.(hoping they would realize I was a bit more informed than some kid who strolled in off the street. I decided to add working button holes for an added touch. They told me alteration would be done in 12 day's and I could come in and verify the sleeve lenght before they sent it out for the sleeve holes.The salesman was adamant that I make sure he was there to take care of me when he returned and checked to make sure...Well 12 day's latter I trecked down to NYC again. The suit was there but he was not. They quickly checked the sleeves and off the jacket went. I tried on the pants and I firmly belive nothing at all had been done except the cuffs. A different much nicer salesman agreed and so did this new tailor. He went over with me the alterations and they were what I thought was being done the 1st time etc... Everything would be back this time by next Saturday. Not happy about another journey too the city, parking etc.. but not having much of a choice I agreed. I called again on Friday and the salesman was very apologetic he missed me last Saturday but both he and my suit would be there tomorrow...Well Saturday comes and he is not there (actually I was the only one on the 7th floor lol) Until a rather nice huy who said he was the manager strolled out of the office asked what I meant nobody was helping me??? made a few calls and found out both sale's people called in sick. On top of that my suit was not there yet and would show up before 5 (it was around 12) He said to make up for it they would overnight it too me. Still being a sport about this I thanked the man and went home... Next day the suit arrived as promised crumpled up in a ball off a broken hanger in a big box looking like this: [​IMG] [​IMG] Not very happy but figure it will fall/steam out I decided to try on the pants. Horrible... The for some reason added darts over the rear pockets? and from the way they fit took them in, waist was tight, they pulled an puckered all over the back and front... [​IMG] Quickly called to voice my displeasure and was asked? So what would you like us to do for you? They wanted to send fed ex to pick it back up. I asked how they could correct the problem if I wasn't there to try the suit on...I drove down the next day (my 3rd trip for this suit) The salesman was in shock and got a new manager who told me "Son I am going to teach you something, always ask for a manager" He wasn't thrilled on my choice of words to express I had already dealt with 1 manager already. The new tailor came down ( I asked where the other 2 disapeared too) and claimed to have studied in Italy at Kiton and would make this perfect... It would be ready in a week and it would be sent overnight to me and all would be perfect etc..etc... Well it arrived 3 weeks and 2 phone calls latter... Well this time the pants fit like spandex in the rear... Now I am on my 4th trip down and the Manager just can't explain it.... He did refund $75 worth of alterations after a much heated discussion and bought myself, wife and mother lunch at there cafe. Food was a whole lot better than there tailors...Well now I am coming down a 5th time a week latter to pick up the suit.... Manager is off, pants still fit horrible jacket is driving me nuts since I tried on many other Kitons in the past 2 month's non of wich fold like that... I get a new assitant manager who can not explain all of this and claims they lost many good tailors to Oxxford, BG's etc...but he is going to request an asian man who he said struggles with English but does super work he has studied for years in Naples and will do everything himself (I was under the impression all before him were too) Well he quickly say's he must fix the fit of the jacket (finally) salesman argues with him that he can't it's Kiton... and they all fold like that...Guy was pretty adamant about it and honestly I got pleasure out of him pissing of the salesman...Also couldn't understand the darts etc...Well picked up the suit today...Not sure what to thing and figured at this point I would turn it over to you guy's here.... Here are some current pics: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] I apologize for the long post but I am lost? Manager today told me it was once again Cashmere Kiton... And it was as good as it was going to get, I pointed out some of the puckering along the sides and he told me it was not there... Am I expecting too much from a suit? Any comments on the fit? Am I a bit too fussy etc??? I would greatly appreciate and guidance. I have never had this problem with any suit in the past.... Thanks
     
  2. brescd01

    brescd01 Senior member

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    I am not a tailoring expert (and this is an understatement), but first of all, the suit is beautiful-looking. Second, the pants look good on you but I think comfort is paramount, not appearance in photos, so if you are uncomfortable then that is no good.

    But Centofanti, who I think is a very fine tailor, altered pants such that they were not comfortable and I went back and asked him to re-do it. This happened twice on two different pairs of pants. I do not think there are objective rules. Something can be aesthetically pleasing but not comfortable. What makes this story painful is the long distance you have to travel each time and the bad service and dishonesty. I think you might be much better off buying the suit like you did and having it altered by your best tailor locally. This "trained by Kiton" bullshit is not persuasive at all, the best tailors did not go to Harvard tailoring school but learned as apprentices. This is one more example of bad department store service. I think places like Barneys have their role: remember the beautiful CJ Seymours this forum tipped me off to? But you have to get your goods and get out as quickly as possible.
     
  3. TomW

    TomW Senior member

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    Well... I for one don't think you're being too fussy. It's just not right - pants too long, waist too tight, jacket not fitting properly, sleeve length not proper for your arms. I'd take it back, ask for the store manager - not a dept manager - and demand your money back. It's no bargain if it don't fit. Alternatively, I'd contact Kiton and show them what Barney's is doing to Kiton's good name.
     
  4. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    You're paying for it, you should get what you want.

    I can't believe the tailor has been arguing with you about the fit of the suit, and the details you were dissatisfied with. You're the one wearing the suit; the tailor's job is to recommend what looks best to his customers, but since many of us here are better educated than the average Joe, we know what to ask for and the tailor should listen. If something isn't comfortable for you, or doesn't look exactly right, it's his job to listen to what you request and make those alterations.

    Also, have you spoken to the head store manager at all, or just the lesser managers? If I were you, I would write a very nice, well-written letter to the HEAD manager of the store and let him know the basics of what you told us - how many trips you had to make, how you have been dissatisfied with the tailor and his arguing, the general headache that it's been. I wouldn't be surprised if you received a nice letter back from the head manager, along with perhaps a generous gift card as consolation for all the time you've had to give up and stress you had to endure, as well as your patience.
     
  5. dorian

    dorian Senior member

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    Your exerience is why I simply refuse to speak, even, with the salespeople at Barney's. They are incredibly rude... and clueless.

    I agree that you should take the suit to Kiton. Their response ought to make up for all that b.s. at Barney's.

    If they do not react as you feel they should, I would then suggest that you take the suit to Raphael. He will fix it, no matter how much those idiots have tried to mess with it already.

    Good luck.
     
  6. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    I think that's a great looking fabric.
    A few comments:
    I think I see what you mean about the fabric bunching in the back, but I was under the impression that it was necessary to provide a range of motion.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  Are you sure you don't get any of that with your other suits?  Possibly it's more noticable here because this fabric seems very lightweight...
    Pants look good to me, albeit on the close fitting side.  Looks a snug at the seat, but at least the pleats don't open.  As David mentioned, comfort is the most important aspect, so go with your instincts.
    Know you didn't ask about this, but your shirt cuffs seem too big for your wrists.  I guess you can't do much about that with RTW double cuffs, but they give the appearance that your sleeves are too long.  Consequently, your suit sleeves are a bit long as well, imo.
    Oh, and I think the shoulders fit you perfectly.

    Anyway, in conclusion, I'd like to echo Versaceman's sentiment, you should get what you want.  I glad you posted pics in the forum, but you'd probably be served best by getting a trusted tailor's opinion.  Seeing Raphael isn't a bad idea...
     
  7. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    I guess some butts aren't like other butts. My trousers all have darts above the rear pockets. I find they fit best that way.
     
  8. Urban Warrior

    Urban Warrior Senior member

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    Thanks to all who replied... I am going to hang on to the suit and will most likely try to get set up with Raphael. Anyone now if he takes in work of the street or do I need a referal etc...? Interesting ebough I e-mailed Kiton in Italy and was rather surprised. They suggested that I go back to Barneys yet again and ask for the manager named Mr. Farid??? I included the same pictures and links to here and askandy. They replied the pictures were not clear enough to determine if the suit fit right. They also pointed out that this was not MTM and I should not expect a perfect fit... I was a bit disapointed in the response, I wasn't expecting a miracle but for them to tell me the pictures were not clear??? I know I am far from a photograper but come on... Renault...Thanks for the feedback, the shirt is a bit long. It was the 1st ever shirt I had done at www.mytailor.com and since have corrected the problem. Once again thanks to all who replied and helped me keep what little sanity I have left...
     
  9. bigbadbuff

    bigbadbuff Senior member

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    While that is an excellent price for the suit, it is still $1600- ie, a LOT of money for clothing. They owe you to get it right, and it's unbelievable that places like Barney's employ morons like the ones you speak of that further soil their name. Unfortunately it sounds like they are used car dealers- once they got your money, they have little interest in dealing with you in the proper way from that point on. Happens everywhere in every business and it's no wonder why stores like Barney's have lost a lot of business over the years. People get sick and tired of dealing with idiots when they should be getting completely competent, helpful no matter what service.
     
  10. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Senior member

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    I think Kiton response was right: this is not Made-To-Measure; if you are lucky, it will fit. No way to make it fit after the suit is ready.

    I can add: cashmere is not the best fabric for a suit, in terms of fitting, duration, and construction.

    I also add: If I liked a neapolitan suit, I'd go to Napoli. And I live in Milan, not NYC. There's a difference between off-the-shelves, made-to-measure and bespoke: you are experiencing that.
     
  11. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    urban warrior, that's the ugliest tie i've ever seen. it's so ugly that, in a way, it's a masterpiece.

    i think this was the big mistake. if you knew the jacket had this fold before you bought it, you shouldn't have bought it. the biggest advantage to buying rtw is wysiwyg.

    still. you have a great suit there. keep altering it until they get it right.
     
  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I actually don't mind the Baroque thing. Now, if you want to see a *really* ugly/incredible tie, you should see if you can get your hands on one those ties from Brioni's 2001 FW collection on which there were alternating bands of roped and woven sections, in gold and scarlet, with a print on the woven section. Those things were very... pimp.
     
  13. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    well i may have found a new style today. some things are so ugly that they become beautiful don't they? reminds me of my crush on charlotte gainsbourg.
     
  14. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    This is why regardless of where I purchase a RTW item, I always bring it to my tailor, as no tailor can compare to her skills. I have had horror stories (I won't go into detail) with Neimans, Saks, RL, Maus & Hoffman (local store, carries Luciano Barbera, Oxxford, Brioni, etc...), etc...

    And to be completely honest, I can comprehend if a tailor is not properly skilled enough to alter a Kiton jacket; it is a skill, which few have. But, not to be able to properly alter a pair of pants is absolutely ridiculous. Even I know how to hem (decently) a pair of pants and I've only tried twice, these so-called "˜tailors' do this for a living.

    Jon.

    Edit: Take the suit back and tell them to stick it up their Asses.
     
  15. Urban Warrior

    Urban Warrior Senior member

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    LOL...actually the tie is from the 2004 Brioni collection...Funny thing is at first I too thought it was kind of ugly but the colors really brought out the pattern in the suit and it grew on me quickly to the point no other tie looked right...Wore it to work the other day and got a more than usual amount of compliments... Go figure....
     

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