MTO vs MTM Tuxedo

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Moustache Mike, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Moustache Mike

    Moustache Mike Member

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    Wow, if not for your bow-tie I'd have assumed the tux was black. Between your descriptions and the photo, I'd say that the 8810 Midnight Blue looks perfect !



    I don't mind if the garment isn't completed before I leave so long as all necessary fittings and adjustments are completed in time, last thing I'd want to do is take a nice expensive Tuxedo and leave stuffed inside of a suitcase for months on end collecting dirt and dust over here. Regarding fabric choice I think I will defer to the expertise of Mr. Foo, and ask for Smith's 8810 (or something of equal quality and appearance if unavailable).
     


  2. Moloch38

    Moloch38 Senior member

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    I figured you were out of the services. Moofoo's advice is sound and spot on and I think WW Chan may work well for you unless you decided the suit seperated route was an easier way to go. I'm not personnally a DB guy, but I'd love to get a shawl tux in the Smith Woolen's midnight blue. I have a peak lapel black tux and I think the midnight looks fantastic.
     


  3. Moustache Mike

    Moustache Mike Member

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    I know that the mohair blend seems to be the popular choice, but what about going with barathea wool in midnight blue?

    I believe the tuxedo used by Pierce Brosnan in "T.N.D" was midnight Barathea wool with midnight grosgrain lapel facings (and midnight grosgrain bowtie), and it appeared to look just as nice on film as the mohair midnight tux used in the following film "T.W.I.N.E".

    If both options look equally stunning, I guess the next thing to take into consideration is value and durability of the fabric.
     


  4. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

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    How long are you in HK? I believe Chan will work with you to get a couple of fittings in if you are there for a week or more--contact them, explain what's going on, and see what they can do. You won't get the final garment, but an initial measurement and basted fitting might be possible, and given that Chan is used to working with usually just an initial fitting when they are traveling, I'd be inclined to believe they could pull it off. They would then mail you the final suit.

    I'd certainly go that route before MTM Canali. Probably cheaper, too, and certainly better made.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


  5. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    I have the black version of the above, SW8811, both are Barathea fabrics, 310g, 71% Merino Wool 29% Mohair, picked directly from Smith Woollens office in London
     


  6. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    There is nothing wrong with that. But I like mohair for a dinner suit because it wears cooler. Generally, you will be wearing your dinner suit indoors, where the temperature is ~70 degrees, and you'll possibly need to move around and dance in it. I would only get the wool barathea if I wanted black over midnight.


    You're overthinking. You can't glean very much about a fabric from watching a movie. Amongst other variables, lighting will drastically change how something appears. You also have no idea who made the fabric. One merchant's barathea is not going to be the same as others'. Trust my original advice: don't trick yourself into thinking you can discern any meaningful differences for yourself, and go with the experience of others. You are not the first to order a bespoke tuxedo, so there is no need to approach it that way.


    Yes, the mohair/wool blends are technically baratheas, in that they are woven that way. But when people say "barathea," they typically mean 100% wool in a barathea weave. If there is mohair in it, they tend to just say "mohair."
     


  7. GBR

    GBR Senior member

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    If you have the option of Chan or Gordon Yao (preferably) in Hong King, get bespoke from wither of them. One fitting would be good but both will make straight through with low risk.

    MTO is crap and MTM can be hard work without much guarantee of results without time to do alterations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Straight through is always a huge risk. The magic of bespoke happens at the fitting, not when measurements are taken.
     


  9. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Ok so I decided to join the 8810 club today, though not as a tux.
     


  10. Moustache Mike

    Moustache Mike Member

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    Contacted WW Chan and said that I wanted the 8810 or something comparable in terms of quality and appearance. The following fabrics were suggested to me, however I have no way of figuring out the wool thickness (Super 100's, 130's, 150's, etc..). I want something nicer than a Super 100's wool, and I just don't know enough about these fabrics... how to they compare to the 8810 ????

    • Smith Woollens formal book:
      9800 (9oz 60% Kid Mohair, 40% Worsted)
      9803 (9/10oz 73% Worsted, 27% Mohair)
      9805 (10oz Barathea 71% Worsted, 29% Mohair)
      -Suggested by Patrick @ WW Chan-


    Thank you for the advice and assistance so far


    Respectfully,
    Moustache Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013


  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    See, you're getting yourself into trouble. Just ask for 8810 exactly. If they have the Smith formal book, they can get 8810. I just spoke to Smith a few weeks ago about that same cloth on behalf of a friend, so I know they recently had it in stock.

    Also, you need to erase the whole notion of super numbers from your head. English mills/merchants don't classify cloth that way. You're barking up the wrong tree. Get the 8810.

    Can't say much just looking at the cloths you've described. I'm sure the quality is great across the board. The 9800 has a very, very high mohair content. That is likely to be very crunchy fabric, have a distinct sheen, and cost a huge premium. The other two are more like 8810 in composition, but you really can't say anything more about them than that. You cannot analyze cloth from a merely quantitative perspective.

    Is there a reason they don't suggest 8810?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013


  12. Moustache Mike

    Moustache Mike Member

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    I asked for Smith Woollen 8810 over the phone... Patrick said he would send me photo's with details about several different fabrics that are alot like the one I mentioned. Even though I asked for 8810 I was not given that option for ordering.

    I cannot find any information about Smith Woollen fabrics, I like the looks of 9803 and 9805 but if they are of a lower quality than the 8810 then I don't want them. This will likely be my only Tux so I want it to be as nice as possible, I am not concerned with the cost.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013


  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    It's not a matter of quality. Like I said, the quality is probably great and just as good. They are all from Smith, after all.

    You can't judge from digital photos. The difference between two blacks or two midnight blues tend to be so marginal that they get easily lost in the translation from reality to computer screen. The lighting, the camera used, the calibration of your monitor, etc., will determine 99% of the difference you observe.

    The point is, 8810 is vouched for. People who have spent much more on their dinner suits have been using it. Trust me, it is excellent. From my understanding, it is the darkest midnight blue mohair/wool blend in the book. Just let Patrick know you want the 8810 and politely ask him to order it for you. He might be offering you the other cloths because he has them in stock and hopes you'll like them well enough.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013


  14. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    I think the differences are in the Fabric actual wave as well as the mohair %. As I said previously, the 8810 (midnight) and 8811 (black) are the same Barathea wave. The 9803 is a plain wave, I had shortlisted the same cloth (in black) with the 8811 I end up buying it. I was after the best possible match to my existing Dinner Jacket Frabric to order a new pair of trousers and a U waistcoat. At the end I settled with 8811 as under all lights condition really matched my Jacket material, ven though the mini barathea wave was slightly thicker then my existing jacket. They are both great fabrics and very similar, so the difference is only in the wave "texture" effect, 8810 has some, the other is a plain wave and has not got any...

    I would not have cared less who else use it or vouch for it, it was simply the best match between all the fabric I had compared to my dinner Jacket from H&S, H Lesser, Drapers and Smith.
     


  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Marco, he doesn't have the benefit of experience. That's why it's better for him to go with what others vouch for, as opposed to what he can feel on his own. As you know, it takes a lot of time and exposure to get a sense for these things.

    Barathea is the most classic weave for a dinner jacket. He wants midnight blue. Smith's formal book is a standard-bearer. That's why I think the 8810 is ideal.
     


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