Most elegant men's dress shoe ever! With Pictures and POLLING!

[am55]

Wholecuts don't stay seamless though, not once you take them out of the window display. I've never seen one that is actually worn where the folds don't distract from the idea. The cap allows you to maintain an area of mirror shine and then a mat area behind it where the folds are less obvious.

This is without getting into whether the minimalism works or not (I think it works for some, but does not work for me - and I've owned many pairs with a wholecut design).

The idea of "hardest to make" does not make sense, I think the artistic direction is where real "skill" lies as opposed to any technical display. One of the international piano competitions recently switched its qualifying rounds to include Mozart and Beethoven as well as the usual show pieces for that reason, in order to eliminate technically brilliant pianists without musicality. I'd argue it is harder to play a Beethoven or Schubert late sonata well than the Rachmaninov or Liszt workouts.

 

[Kushcoma9000]

Wholecuts don't stay seamless though, not once you take them out of the window display. I've never seen one that is actually worn where the folds don't distract from the idea. The cap allows you to maintain an area of mirror shine and then a mat area behind it where the folds are less obvious.

This is without getting into whether the minimalism works or not (I think it works for some, but does not work for me - and I've owned many pairs with a wholecut design).

The idea of "hardest to make" does not make sense, I think the artistic direction is where real "skill" lies as opposed to any technical display. One of the international piano competitions recently switched its qualifying rounds to include Mozart and Beethoven as well as the usual show pieces for that reason, in order to eliminate technically brilliant pianists without musicality. I'd argue it is harder to play a Beethoven or Schubert late sonata well than the Rachmaninov or Liszt workouts.

"Seamless" is not synonymous with "without folds". Seamless means there's no seam (aka a stitch) on the back heel of the wholecut shoe, which is very hard to do (in fact, no machine can do it on a wholecut, so only a shoemaker's hands can do it so it's strictly bespoke). But yes, the folding that occurs on the leather of wholecuts is definitely more visible because of it's plain nature, as opposed to a cap toe, etc, although I heard maybe Cordovan leather might fold less (not sure). You can also add more toe spring I believe to reduce folds from appearing (not to the point where it looks like an elf shoe obviously). But ya, it's just the idea of it being the most minimilast oxford that makes it elegant to me.

 

[dieworkwear]

I think wholecuts are ugly, to be honest, and frankly don't care if a shoe was difficult to make. That said, they seem to be mostly worn by guys who are kind of flashy, which seems to be the opposite of elegance.

Agree with the poster earlier though. If you had to pick an "elegant shoe" (which still seems like a ridiculous concept to me), it would probably be a plain toe, black oxford in good, tasteful proportions and materials. Something restrained, but beautiful.

 

[am55]

I think wholecuts are ugly, to be honest

Ahem...

The best thing about RM Williams’ boots is that they’re made from a single piece of leather

 

[dieworkwear]

Ahem...

Ha.

I think not having a seam on the side there helps the look though. Wholecuts (in the sense the OP is talking about) just look vaguely taxidermic to me. Or at least too plain.

Admittedly, since style is all about associations, I mostly dislike them because they're worn by flashy guys.

 

[am55]

Ha.

I think not having a seam on the side there helps the look though. Wholecuts (in the sense the OP is talking about) just look vaguely taxidermic to me. Or at least too plain.

Admittedly, since style is all about associations, I mostly dislike them because they're worn by flashy guys.

I googled the OP's name, thinking it may geolocate him somewhere in Pakistan or Afghanistan, and discovered some vernacular which by association may indicate flashiness is preferred. I had forgotten about the main crop of the Paropamisus.

 

[Kushcoma9000]

Ha.

I think not having a seam on the side there helps the look though. Wholecuts (in the sense the OP is talking about) just look vaguely taxidermic to me. Or at least too plain.

Admittedly, since style is all about associations, I mostly dislike them because they're worn by flashy guys.

Ever heard of the expression "less is more". That's why some people like wholecuts, but it's the same reason you dislike them lol. I'm not a flashy guy btw. Kinda hard to objectively know if more flashy men wear wholecuts than non-flashy men tho.

 

[Kushcoma9000]

I googled the OP's name, thinking it may geolocate him somewhere in Pakistan or Afghanistan, and discovered some vernacular which by association may indicate flashiness is preferred. I had forgotten about the main crop of the Paropamisus.

Lol I live in the U.S. and you can't really guess if someone prefers being flashy by their screen name lmao

 

[dieworkwear]

Kinda hard to objectively know if more flashy men wear wholecuts than non-flashy men tho.

I'm actually the Chief Scientist at the Center for the Study of Elegance, and we've conducted studies on the relationship between flashiness and wholecuts. We've found that it's objectively true that wholecuts are worn by flashier men.

 

[Kushcoma9000]

I'm actually the Chief Scientist at the Center for the Study of Elegance, and we've conducted studies on the relationship between flashiness and wholecuts. We've found that it's objectively true that wholecuts are worn by flashier men.

Lol well, congrats on your position sir. Never knew such an organization existed. Thank you for the convincing evidence

 

[RogerP]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally find the clean seamless shoe elegant in its simplicity, & shape, relying upon an elegant last. Its sort of like a tuxedo - one may say a velvet dinner jacket is more fun, or a double breasted suit is more interesting, but the elegance of the tuxedo is in its simplicity. But, I do agree with the general sentiment that this thread is rather silly.

A wholecut is ALL about the last - what you are seeing is literally the last come to life without adornment. If the lines of the last aren't stunningly beautiful, then the shoe can come off looking like a lifeless blob. But the very best examples of the style are quite stunning, IMO.

My personal fave for "elegance" (in itself a subjective term) is the austerity brogue. My subjective perception of that term embraces conservative minimalism (so, like, the conceptual opposite of a triple monk) with a dash of style. But that dash of style is critical. A good austerity brogue delivers. A pair of mine from Vass:

 

[DWFII]

FWIW:

Contrary to what has been said here and elsewhere, a wholecut that is seamed in the back is made from one piece of leather; a spiral wholecut is made from one piece of leather.

The thing about "difficult to make" is that in most cases it also implies both a certain rarity and, by definition, exclusiveness. By contrast, shoes with seams...pieced...are common almost to the point of being "common" (in the sense of being banal if not plebeian). As the OP said (or implied) even dumb machines make pieced shoes.

One of the attractions of any leather shoe is the leather itself. A wholecut (seamless or not) allows the leather to take center stage...with nothing to distract the eye. No gratuitous ornamentation. See a Meccariello seamless crocodile wholecut--to the casual observer, the croc "dominates the conversation" (as it should).

[Parenthetically, I personally think most pieced crocodile or alligator shoes are horrid affairs and an affront to the beauty of the leather.]

Of course that all implies a truly top shelf leather and a pair of respectful hands--a craftsman who "sees" and honours the leather.

Speaking of ornamentation...I suspect seams, broguing, pricking-up and crowing (decoration on the outsole) originated to cover up or distract the eye from mistakes the shoemaker made or flaws in the leather. Certainly if a hide is badly scarred, it is easier to divide the pattern into pieces and cut around the scars than discard the hide entirely because there isn't enough clear leather.

In the end, even the best shoemakers are not "Artists". It's important to understand that. Everyone wants to be an Artist these days but an Artist is someone trying to communicate some deeper human truth through a more evocative medium than words. Shoemakers are just Craftsmen. And while there's nobility in that all by itself...and perhaps even elements of "artistry"...there's no Beethoven or Mozart in it.

 

[jonathanS]

I think wholecuts are ugly, to be honest,

Perhaps thats because you haven't found the right wholecut! I'm partial to G&G Westbury, personally. Sinatra is okay for black tie.

That said, they seem to be mostly worn by guys who are kind of flashy, which seems to be the opposite of elegance.

This relationship between flashier men & wholecuts is interesting. I'm not sure I agree. If true, it's an understated flashiness. Flashy only because there are few men who will actually notice. It does not make sense. On the flip side, something like cufflinks without a tuxedo, people notice that (its a look I hate).

When I think of flashy men I think of the db yellow plaid suits at Pitti. But, flashiness is a sliding scale rather than a binary scale, and, again, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One person's flashy may be another person's conservative. When developing a personal style, you have to find what works for you & what you are comfortable with.

I like the whole cuts with a DB suit, but with odd trousers / sports coat, it looks out of place. Does that make me flashy? I'd say no, but you might say yes.

 

[DWFII]

This relationship between flashier men & wholecuts is interesting. I'm not sure I agree.

I'm with you...I'm the least flashy person on the planet but I prefer wholecuts and seamless wholecuts above all. I like the simplicity. I like the lack of pretension.

I suspect the real problem is that the simplicity and elegance embodied in a wholecut seems "simple"...easy to duplicate...when in fact, it may be the hardest thing to do...esp. to do well...in shoemaking. In any field.

And point of fact, again...FWIW, it is no harder to maintain a spit-shine on a pair of wholecuts than on a pair of captoe brogues. It is the toe puff that prevents creasing in the extreme forepart of the shoe, not the toe cap.

The toe cap, like other components of a pieced shoe works to "de-focus" our attention. Re-direct our eyes. The way a silver gum wrapper will divert the attention of a magpie. The same thing could be said for the perfs on a toe cap or even that self-same mirror shine. At some point we lose all sense of the shoe--of the "gestalt" of the shoe, we're so busy tracing the baroque, even florid, ornamentation that has virtually no meaningful function.

Mind, I've nothing against any of that but call it for what it is.

 

[emptym]

These wholecut stingrays of cdmoore and winot are interesting:

Hi Guys

These will be the last ones for a while. I am going on a bespoke Hiatus for a year (well that's the plan before I go broke), not to say there are not shoes on the way, I have some JL Vale's in Plum Museum being made specially for me and some Anthony Cleverley loafers arriving within a week.

These 2 G&G's came out a great as the RL Norwegian, the Stingray is slightly darker than their sample shoe they take on the rd but none the less very flash, the Gators are a real class act.

The fit has been improved on these last three over the first two I had made, slightly narrower.
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