MoneyWellSpent's Southern Trad Thread

[am55]

- edit - never mind, was going off topic.

 

[smittycl]



Just a bit. I had your original reply via email before you redacted. Not sure of your leanings but take Trinquier with a grain of salt. French writing on their involvement in Vietnam can be quite convoluted (much like ours). Flash forward to Algeria and Trinquier was there overtly while Ausserssas was there covertly and committing war crimes of the worst kind.

Anyway, let's not tarnish the Southern Trad site with awfulness.

 

[Van Veen]



An old timer saying goes like this; "It should take someone five minutes to realize you're well dressed." The anti-Pitti, if you will.

That's a great saying. I'd even go so far as to say, "it should take someone five days to realize you're well dressed."

There's a guy I work with that always dresses well, every day. (There's no dress code at all.) Nothing impressive by SF standards, but he does the casual trad thing very well with lower end brands. Took me a couple of weeks to realize it. Now I have a lot of silent respect for the guy, but it's weird to go up to someone and say, "hey, you dress really well every day," vs. "I like your shirt!"

 

[Caustic Man]



That's a great saying. I'd even go so far as to say, "it should take someone five days to realize you're well dressed."

There's a guy I work with that always dresses well, every day. (There's no dress code at all.) Nothing impressive by SF standards, but he does the casual trad thing very well with lower end brands. Took me a couple of weeks to realize it. Now I have a lot of silent respect for the guy, but it's weird to go up to someone and say, "hey, you dress really well every day," vs. "I like your shirt!"

That's an interesting observation. For me personally I'd say that is far more desirable than the very "out" version of dressing well that is popular on SF. That style of dressing well is the root of people thinking someone is over dressed. It has nothing to do with wearing tailored clothes, ties, or trousers everyday (at least usually). It is often because the person is TRYING to be showy. Or perhaps it's because the person is being showy without knowing it. In any case, it is my philosophy that if someone is noticing me for my clothes (outside of the internet anyway) then they are noticing the wrong thing. On instagram or SF it's different because I'm offering those images to the public. IRL I don't present myself as a clothing guy.

 

[Count de Monet]



Man, I wished you would have left it up. Where else could we have found a single thread including pictures of UGa sorority girls on game day and a discussion of OSS/CIA involvement in French Indochina?

I was just about to adroitly point out how John Houseman was quintessentially trad in Three Days of the Condor, playing a CIA character obviously based on William "Wild Bill" Donovan and Allen Dulles, who went to Colombia and Princeton respectively. Houseman in real life was born in Romania but it was SOUTHERN Romania.

So, there you go.

 

[Van Veen]



That's an interesting observation. For me personally I'd say that is far more desirable than the very "out" version of dressing well that is popular on SF. That style of dressing well is the root of people thinking someone is over dressed. It has nothing to do with wearing tailored clothes, ties, or trousers everyday (at least usually). It is often because the person is TRYING to be showy. Or perhaps it's because the person is being showy without knowing it. In any case, it is my philosophy that if someone is noticing me for my clothes (outside of the internet anyway) then they are noticing the wrong thing. On instagram or SF it's different because I'm offering those images to the public. IRL I don't present myself as a clothing guy.

It's not even just Styleforum or #menswear or Pitti. It's a whole generation of guys who dressed like slobs through HS and college, then decided they want to dress well, and found a bunch of blogs with "dapper" and "gent" and "man" in the title. Or decided to emulate the way sportscasters or athletes dress. (Those guys are paid to be characters.)

This is why I really don't like the gingham shirt. It's the first thing a lot of guys seem to buy when they decide they want to dress well. It's not boring like a plain shirt! I wish I could go back in time 5 or 10 years and tell myself to buy more basics: one good white oxford instead of the three patterned shirts I got on sale, for example.

 

[Caustic Man]

I think hats very insightful. The trend moves toward the showy because those are the kind of people who make blogs. Of course I don't know this to be true, but it seems like a plausible scenario.

 

[am55]

Not sure of your leanings but take Trinquier with a grain of salt. French writing on their involvement in Vietnam can be quite convoluted (much like ours).

I just assume all narrators are unreliable and biased. There is some sort of objective truth but you have to painstakingly reconstitute it via analysing as many viewpoints as you can get your hands on, discounting each source by its assumed bias (e.g. sources may praise themselves, and/or also paint a picture that matches what the government of the time wanted to project) and applying your own set of values evolved through first hand observation, deduction and trustworthy sources.

Sometimes it's quite hard to get a good view of the other side. E.g. I've found it near-impossible to find ZANLA or ZIPRA sources whilst Rhodesian sources abound. The closest you can get is critical accounts from third parties that are heavily biased towards one outcome and world view.

It's the same here. Anonymous account comes and for his first post tells us just how GREAT this new brand of ties made in Bulgaria are, I'll probably report it as promotional spam. uppr_crust or Andy57 saying the same, I'll buy one off the recommendation. Of course, discussions to establish credibility and the objectivity of various opinions are the most fun - as we have seen amply on this thread.

 

[Van Veen]

Charlie scoffs at curriculum-based dressers punctiliously concerned with rules and genre perimeters. Sophisticated dressers, he says, see a wide horizon beyond buttondowns and striped ties. “Charlie has a larger sartorial vocabulary than the died-in-the-wool traditionalist,” says Paul Winston, whose family ran rival trad clothier Chipp. And while he’s the oldest practicing torch-bearer of the Ivy League Look, Charlie is strongly opposed to “looking like a ’50s caricature,” and cryptically calls Ivy style more of an attitude than a wardrobe. “You know a preppy,” he says drily, “as soon as he walks in.”

– from Ivy Style

 

[smittycl]

I think hats very insightful. The trend moves toward the showy because those are the kind of people who make blogs. Of course I don't know this to be true, but it seems like a plausible scenario.

You end up standing out, very subtly, if you pay attention to fit and fabric. Doesn't take much. Just wear decent stuff that's properly tailored and you'll meet the "five minute" scenario discussed above. No need to be flashy with scarf and gloves sticking fingers up out of breast pocket. I've always hated that contrivance. Worked only for Italian race car drivers from 1925.

 

[smittycl]

Allen Edmonds factory seconds sale on today. Some excellent Trad and contemporary items. http://www.allenedmonds.com/sale/factory-seconds/

Was tempted by loafers but am intending on upping loafer game with Aldens. Did get a pair of Liverpool Chelsea boots, though.

 

[pleatedjeans]

Allen Edmonds factory seconds sale on today. Some excellent Trad and contemporary items. http://www.allenedmonds.com/sale/factory-seconds/

Was tempted by loafers but am intending on upping loafer game with Aldens. Did get a pair of Liverpool Chelsea boots, though.

Thanks for the heads up, I have been keeping my eye on those chelseas ever since they got them in. I ordered a pair of Long Branch pebble grain boots to the shop near me to try on, if those don't work, I'll jump on the chelseas

 

[Caustic Man]

You end up standing out, very subtly, if you pay attention to fit and fabric. Doesn't take much. Just wear decent stuff that's properly tailored and you'll meet the "five minute" scenario discussed above. No need to be flashy with scarf and gloves sticking fingers up out of breast pocket. I've always hated that contrivance. Worked only for Italian race car drivers from 1925.

This brings up an interesting question. If subtlety and nonchalance are key, why do tradists consistently wear, often loud and obnoxious, FU clothing? It seems to me that this is an altogether different thing than "pea-cocking." Pea-cocking, like the animal it is named after, is motivated to impress. It may be an eccentric form of trying to impress, but it is this nonetheless. FU clothing is just that, a big FU to anyone who doesn't like it. FU clothing can often look goofy, it can often clash disastrously, and usually takes a lot of confidence to wear. I'm thinking of something along the lines of a very conservative shirt, tie, and trousers, but with a madras sport coat on over it. It is a visual way of saying, "Not only do I have the right to wear this, but I couldn't care less what your little, middling, mind thinks of it."

 

[smittycl]



This brings up an interesting question. If subtlety and nonchalance are key, why do tradists consistently wear, often loud and obnoxious, FU clothing? It seems to me that this is an altogether different thing than "pea-cocking." Pea-cocking, like the animal it is named after, is motivated to impress. It may be an eccentric form of trying to impress, but it is this nonetheless. FU clothing is just that, a big FU to anyone who doesn't like it. FU clothing can often look goofy, it can often clash disastrously, and usually takes a lot of confidence to wear. I'm thinking of something along the lines of a very conservative shirt, tie, and trousers, but with a madras sport coat on over it. It is a visual way of saying, "Not only do I have the right to wear this, but I couldn't care less what your little, middling, mind thinks of it." 

How about a car analogy? Line up a dozen high-end cars. The spaceship-like Lamborghini will immediately get your attention but so will it's overall cartoonishness. An elite/royal/1%er who could care less about the opinion of others or a posturer compensating for something? Then look at the Jaguar. Clean lines, refined look, powerful yet respectful of tradition. The Jag wins every time with discerning folks. Refined understatement.

 

[Caustic Man]

I think that works to a point, because FU clothing is often not understated in the least.

As a caveat to all this I should say that being one of the people we are talking about here is more a matter of culture than money. Uppers can be poor indeed. Often far poorer than their middle class counterparts. But you can't buy your way into the upper ranks. Even if a middler is wealthier, they don't suddenly become an upper.