1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

MoneyWellSpent's Southern Trad Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Caustic Man, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Allen Edmonds, Randolph loafers.

    I have two pairs, the other is in burgundy. One of my favorite models.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  2. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

    Messages:
    2,372
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    

    I thought those looked like AE Randolphs, bit the leather threw me off. They almost look like Reindeer in the lighting. Looks good.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

    Messages:
    2,372
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    [​IMG]

    Business casual in Tweed.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    ^^^ That's as trad as it gets.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. AMProf

    AMProf Senior member

    Messages:
    380
    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Location:
    RVA
    [​IMG]

    Feeling inspired by MWS's post, but with denim. Can denim + tweed be trad?
     
  6. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    To old timers I'd say no. Denim is a working man's fabric. But today, denim has become so much more. Is it trad? Who knows. But it can certainly look good with trad clothes.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

    Messages:
    2,372
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    

    As previously stated, perhaps not Trad in its strictest form. But, denim and tweed do look great together, and I do it regularly as well.
     
  8. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  9. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
  10. Roycru

    Roycru Senior member

    Messages:
    1,095
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @Caustic Man

    Thank you. Yesterday, I walked past a girl who said "Nice Jacket". We all have had many similar experiences when we are out in the real world. We only get bizarre comments about what we are wearing when we post pictures online.

    There are even some people who make bizarre comments when I comment about others (not them) making bizarre comments.

    While on the subject of bizarre comments, the "Talk Ivy" group at Film Noir Buff seems to be the world headquarters for bizarre comments, mostly made by the usual suspects (people who seldom, if ever, post pictures of themselves).

    Seldom look at "Talk Ivy" but looked recently when someone in another group posted about a "Talk Ivy" member posting videos of setting shirts on fire in his bath tub. Looked at some of the videos, which I think are the best things that ever were, or ever will be, posted on "Talk Ivy".
     
    2 people like this.
  11. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    The peculiar things about Talk Ivy, to me, is that some of them actually look pretty decent. I mean, that is strange in that the clothes are entirely removed from any context. But then they come along with something like "NASA Ivy" (i.e.: short sleeved shirts and ties), which is not a thing. I wonder if this is how British people felt when American youths started copying Punk styles.
     
  12. An Acute Style

    An Acute Style Senior member

    Messages:
    3,131
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Location:
    New York, NY
    CM, I took a look at some of the looks on the Talk Ivy form. I saw several examples of crewnecks with ties that looked passable.
     
  13. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
  14. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

    Messages:
    2,372
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Merry Christmas!

    [​IMG]

    Speaking of wearing tweed with denim... This is one of my favorites for that. The colors of the tweed are hard to capture on camera, but here is closer look with some sun coming through the window. It's actually a sagey color with navy and gray highlights.
    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  15. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    ^^^ Interesting pattern. Vintage?

    On another note: I have been thinking about some things relating to trad and ivy styles, partly inspired by @Roycru and partly inspired by the jeans question. Roy has commented before on how peculiar the internet makes things like trad/ivy. Suddenly, when you get people on the internet with common categorical interests together, they begin to make up rules and to try and decide what is and is not part of said category. This is certainly the case on places like SF, but it is true of places like Ivy-Style.com as well. I'd guess that a great number of people on that website did not go to ivy league schools, nor did many of them grow up in elite families. There is nothing wrong with this, and it doesn't mean you can't wear trad/ivy clothes, but it does make it a bit more peculiar when these people try to determine what that genre consists of, and dutifully policing people who stray from cannon.

    I certainly didn't go to an ivy league school but I suppose I can claim to come from what was previously an elite-ish Mexican family. We count two presidents in our line, and several places bear our name. I risk the accusations of internet bragging for a purpose. I can remember my grandfather and uncles and aunts dressing in the American trad style. Imitating it, if you will. They weren't exactly compradores, but close enough. The point here is that they never gave a thought, that I know of, to policing genres like trad. Indeed, they changed and adapted it to their culture and time. Since my childhood I've met many people who wear trad styles, both those who were born into it and those who consciously adopted it. Without fail, the policers are those who adopted it consciously. It seems to me that the tendency to police people is akin to the American obsession with authenticity. If Jack Kennedy didn't do it, and if it didn't come from the J. Press catalogue of 1964, then it just isn't trad (so goes the idea). This really is disheartening in a way, because even though there are tendencies in trad style, and even though people did define acceptable and unacceptable things to wear, it seems to me that trad is more about a state of mind than anything else. That said, thumbing one's nose at people who aren't "authentically trad" is the most un-trad thing you can do.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Roycru

    Roycru Senior member

    Messages:
    1,095
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @Caustic Man ,

    The people who make up rules appear to be people who weren't buying clothes when Eisenhower was President (not their fault, they weren't born yet) and have incorrect ideas about what people looked like. They are always unable to find any proof of their incorrect ideas that would hold up in court. Their proof would always be objected to as hearsay, and the objection would be sustained.

    They cannot find (because they doesn't exist) any documents containing their imaginary rules. As I have mentioned in the past, websites like Voxsartoria are filled with pictures of the way men dressed before the invention of the internet and the invention of the imaginary rules.

    The only pre-internet document is the 1975 book "Dress For Success" by John T. Molloy. This is a business book, not a fashion book, and it is the result of research into what to wear when selling to different classes, sexes, races, and in different regions.

    For some bizarre reason, people who weren't born when it was published imagine "The Officious Preppy Handbook" is a book of rules. It is not. It is a joke book, and when first published, was in the "Humor" section in book stores, not the "Fashion" section.

    Lisa Birnbach's second book "True Prep" was also in the "Humor" section, not the "Fashion" section.

    As you mentioned Ivy-Style, since the Ivy-Style posters don't post pictures of themselves (since it's not the sort of website where you can do that), no one has any idea what the posters look like.

    In places where posters can post pictures (like Styleforum) I've always felt people who make comments without ever posting pictures of themselves are like people who try to sneak on the train without a ticket. There are some of these sort who have made thousands of posts (mostly bizarre comments) without ever posting pictures of themselves. I keep hoping the internet conductor catches them and throws them off in a state where a train only has to slow down, rather than stop, when someone is thrown off.

    The biggest single improvement that could be made to any online style or fashion group is to limit posting comments to those who also post pictures. That would solve most of the problems with the people who make up rules.

    For some reason, I have always though the people who make comments without ever posting pictures of themselves are probably loons who are locked up in loony bins and given computer access because it controls them better than straightjackets and padded cells.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. crdb

    crdb Senior member

    Messages:
    712
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Well, I do not try and make rules, however I personally do not post pictures mostly because I do not think them worth viewing. One can appreciate a live performance by Sviatoslav Richter without being able to play through Scriabin's sonatas, although it certainly helps.

    This is not to deny that your argument has teeth (and I love your regular tweeds, which in my opinion are worn too rarely these days), merely a defence of the quiet lurkers amongst us whose less than stellar fits are perhaps best left from polluting the threads.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  18. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Roy,

    I'm glad you mentioned that about the Preppy Handbook. As far as I know, most people who read it when it was first published took it for the joke that it was. How it transformed from humor to serious guidebook, I do not know, although it has been written that the Japanese ignored the literary aspect of it and simply used it as a fashion guide early on. Paul Fussell's Class is another joke book that has been taken far too seriously. Worth a read for all who haven't. The cumulative problem with this disconnect, that is, the disconnect between style and the culture from which it came, is that many of those who try to emulate it end up looking like a poor imitation of John Kennedy.

    As with those British Ivy enthusiasts, this disconnect can be very strange at times. It's hard not to look like you are engaging in some kind of fancy dress. Vintage enthusiasts fall into this very easily. How does one draw lessons from, and inspiration from, the past without looking like you stepped out of a time machine? This is only a problem when disconnected from the culture. This is not to say that I always dress "Ivy", however you might define that. But I do feel quite comfortable moving in that direction whenever I want to.

    crdb,

    I don't think he has a problem with he lurker, per se. Just those people who are so judgmental, but never subject themselves to the same kind of scrutiny they give others.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. smittycl

    smittycl Senior member

    Messages:
    707
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Location:
    East Coast
    Fascinating discussion. The origin and accuracy of the various rules has always intrigued me. I guess it's also important to note that Hollywood photos have always been staged. Always neat stuff on Voxsartoria's site but Bogart, McQueen, Grant, Astaire, etc. were all cultivating an image no different from actors and Instagram-folks today. Even the classic ads were just (obviously) contrived to sell another image. I guess the most accurate sources would be photos from actual workplaces, events and social gatherings.

    Fussell's "Class" was fairly amusing if I remember. I always loved his "The Great War and Modern Memory" and the essay "Thank God for Atomic Bomb." Not someone I see referenced much anymore. On another note, the Economist ran a funny piece on Harry Flashman in their most recent issue if there are any GMF fans out there. [​IMG]
     
  20. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Smitty brings up a good point as well. The staged nature of many of the "authentic" photos that people go by. I think it's safe to say that people in previous decades (that is, before smart phones) were snapping far fewer daily pictures of themselves, and perhaps fewer still that were candid.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by