Moneyball- I hate this book

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by esquire., Dec 17, 2004.

  1. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    Damn moneyball, and damn everything about it. I had no problems with the theories when it was the Oakland A's trying to put a square peg into a round hole. But, now, we've got acolytes like Depodesta running the Dodgers into the ground. The only reason the A's were so succesful was because they had the Hudson, Mulder, and Zito.

    Why are the Dodgers even trying to be a Moneyball team. They're a big market team that should rival Yankees or Red Sox in spending. How could MLB let McCourt 'buy' the Dodgers when he cleary didn't have the money. The potential 3 way deal with the Yankees and Arizona doesn't make any sense for the Dodgers at all unless the goal is to dump salary.
     
  2. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I think it's not a bad deal for the Dodgers. They give up Shawn Green and Penny and get Vasquez, who was one of the best pitchers in the NL and would be going to an extreme pitcher's park. They will also have the flexibility to sign top end free agents. What they should try to do is trade for someone like Andrew Jones who would be ideal for their team if this deal gets done, which seems unlikely at this point.
     
  3. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Senior member

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    hush your mouth....AJ is not up for grabs, but what about the deals the Braves are making, maybe they can win fun again.
     
  4. Stu

    Stu Senior member

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    I was, and still am scratching my head over DoLuca, Mota and Encarnacion for Penny and Choi. What the he.. was he thinking? However, turning Penny into Vazquez is good, real good, and the 2 prospects they are getting are supposed to be the real deal. That said the Dodgers may have serious problems on offense this year. DoLuca, Belte, Roberts, Green -- all gone. Encarnacion too, but I never thought he was that good to begin with. Now they have a 3-4 of Bradley and Kent?[​IMG]??? That doesn't send quivers throughout NL pitching staffs.
     
  5. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    Well, theres still Delgado, Beltran (although I doubt they get him) Ordonez, and potentially Sosa out there... Chris, did you see my post about the Braves? I think they might actually be better w/o AJ though [​IMG]
     
  6. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    This is just crazy talk. Â Granted, Andruw has not quite lived up to his potential, but his defense alone makes him almost untouchable.
     
  7. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    His defense has been good but according to the stats I was looking at, he's been slowing not only in the batters box but in the field as well. I'm not saying that they will get rid of them, but if they were willing to spend, they could get quite a bit for him and he is being paid alot. Concievably if they traded him for prospects they could sign Beltran.
     
  8. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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  9. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    This thread mysteriously ate my last post, so here goes.  Your proposed strategy is a huge risk for very little payoff.  Beltran is probably the best all-around player in baseball.  That said, I think he is marginally better than Jones.  Beltran has indicated that he wants to stay in Houston, and if he decides to go to the highest bidder, Atlanta will have to compete with the Yankees.
     
  10. Stu

    Stu Senior member

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    Which brings me to a riddle: When Beane does a deal with Shurholz, (SP?) who gets fleeced?
     
  11. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Can someone please explain the concept of moneyball?
     
  12. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

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    I've only read part of the book, but my understanding is, believers in this school favor different stats than traditional baseball guys. Instead of batting avg., HRs, RBIs, etc., they look for patience at the plate, base stealing ability and overall run generation, because whoever scores the most runs wins. The resulting strategy is: don't draft/develop the players with the most athletic potential, draft the ones with the most all around potential. You get teams full of generally good role players, and if everyone plays their role, theoretically, you win. It also allows you to say goodbye to high-priced players, because, in theory their value isn't far above whoever will replace them.
     
  13. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Thanks, shoreman.  Isn't this just a fancy way of saying "small ball" or "National League style ball"?  Strange thing, I've seen the term moneyball associated with Theo Epstein's strategy with the Red Sox, but they have the second highest payroll in baseball.
     
  14. TheRookie

    TheRookie Senior member

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    In addition to the difference in which stats management focuses on, the book indicates that Beane and company are concerned with stats generally much more than other managers. Meaning, they eschew the traditional baseball scout "This guy is gonna be a star, I can tell by looking at him" way of doing things in favor of throwing numbers into a spreadsheet. Two guys specifically mentioned as A's draft targets when the book was being written are Kevin Youkilis who played off and on at third for the Red Sox last season, and the much sought after pitcher Scott Kazmir. As for specific stats, the Moneyball concept centers around on base percentage.
     
  15. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Senior member

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    Seems like it probably works, outside of winning the Series, look at what the Braves did both with a high salary and without the name brand stars, they won either way for 12 years now...but my congrats to the Red Sox, I was pulling for them all the way.
     

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