Momotaro

[lawyerdad]

That's good to hear. I'd like nothing better than to believe the pair I have will now last many years, but it goes without saying the initial experience was disappointing. Before going with Momotaro, I read through many threads on this forum, reddit and superfuture and didn't see a single QC complaint. My pics above do make me wonder if Momotaro (like many brands) has quietly cut costs while trading on their brand equity.

Do you guys have an opinion on Momotaro build quality vs. Pure Blue Japan, Tanuki, et al? I get that preferences on fabric weight, slubbiness, etc. are subjective.

I understand your reaction to your personal experience here, but you realize that this single data point is a very thin reed on which to hang “wonder if ... cut costs while trading on their brand equity”, right? Especially when you’ve read multiple threads (excuse the pun) on forums frequented by obsessive denim-heads without encountering any other mentions of QC issues. Aberrations happen, even with good QC. They should be rare, of course — which the totality of what you posted suggests they are for Momotaro.

 

[gaseousclay]

Do you guys have an opinion on Momotaro build quality vs. Pure Blue Japan, Tanuki, et al? I get that preferences on fabric weight, slubbiness, etc. are subjective.

I have no opinion on Momotaro’s build quality other than to say they’re jeans. There’s no correlation to brand name versus longevity imho, unless you’re talking really cheap mall denim. All expensive denim will invariably have some sort of loose thread or whatever - they were sewn by humans. Just wear the sh*t out of them and don’t baby them

 

[broiler]

I understand your reaction to your personal experience here, but you realize that this single data point is a very thin reed on which to hang “wonder if ... cut costs while trading on their brand equity”, right? Especially when you’ve read multiple threads (excuse the pun) on forums frequented by obsessive denim-heads without encountering any other mentions of QC issues. Aberrations happen, even with good QC. They should be rare, of course — which the totality of what you posted suggests they are for Momotaro.

While I take your point, I don't entirely agree. My hypothesis was largely based on posts by Momotaro wearers from 5 to 10 years ago, when the brand enjoyed a strong online consensus of good quality and QC. There are however, far fewer recent 1st person reviews on this and other online forums. In this thread as an example, the most recent post touting a new Momotaro purchase was in 2018. And the last post from 2019 before I necro'ed this thread was a poster seeking Momotaro sizing advice and going unanswered.

What I was seeking (and what I asked for in my post) is feedback from other recent Momotaro purchasers to either support or refute my supposition. I'm open to either conclusion but I'm asking for more data points and there have not been many forthcoming. I understand and expect there is a happy consensus among Momotaro wearers who bought their jeans 2+ years ago.

 

[peachfuzzmcgee]

Lol wtf they are jeans, who gives a ****, you bought them, just return or wear them. You would have to get more than 2 or 3 data points. You would have to do hundreds of thousands to really get any semblance of real data to back up any claim for or against the quality.

if you buy everyone here a pair, we can all test it. Also the fact that people have their pairs for 8 plus years is always a good testament.

 

[broiler]

I think you are thinking too hard, there was a loose thread. Yeah it sucks but not really a huge deal, and an easy repair you can do at home if you don't need it to be perfect. I'm sure **** happens, and I think all the jean brands at that tear have about the same level of build quality. I get buying like 250 dollars jeans with that can be disappointing but at the end of the day they are just jeans.

I have no opinion on Momotaro’s build quality other than to say they’re jeans. There’s no correlation to brand name versus longevity imho, unless you’re talking really cheap mall denim. All expensive denim will invariably have some sort of loose thread or whatever - they were sewn by humans. Just wear the sh*t out of them and don’t baby them

While this is probably the correct answer, that begs the question of why exactly should anyone pay $200+ for a pair of jeans? I've been firmly in the camp of "who gives a ****, they're just jeans" and my $40 made in Pakistan Levi's look fine, are very comfortable and there's not a stitch out of place. They even have reinforced chain stitching in some places my Momo's don't. If I'd cared enough to patch the crotch blowout on my last pair, they could have easily lasted me 7-8 years.

Clarifier on the initial loose stitches on the Momo's: this was much worse than loose ends or stray threads. Those are common on new articles of clothing including tailor made suits. You cut or burn off the ends and that's the end of it. This was mis-done stitching on a main structural seam that started unraveling after two hours of wear. Like the seam literally started coming apart. I've never experienced that on any other pants ever, and I've been wearing big boy pants since the 80's.

Lol wtf they are jeans, who gives a ****, you bought them, just return or wear them. You would have to get more than 2 or 3 data points. You would have to do hundreds of thousands to really get any semblance of real data to back up any claim for or against the quality.

if you buy everyone here a pair, we can all test it. Also the fact that people have their pairs for 8 plus years is always a good testament.

Would be cool if we could get 5 maybe 10 other data points in this thread from recent purchasers. That would be enough for me.

 

[gaseousclay]

Paying $200+ for denim is a personal choice. I used to roll my eyes at the idea of paying that much for any article of clothing but over time I changed my mind. But, I started off with budget brands first, like Gustin, Taylor Stitch and N&F before moving onto $200+ jeans.

To me, the cost of expensive denim boils down to higher material costs, skilled labor and paying a living wage to those laborers, on top of the cost of importing that item into the country. I’d rather pay more for clothing that was ethically made versus paying less where the workers are paid a pittance under questionable working conditions. Or, I’ll buy second hand from those brands whose business model I support. Companies like Levi’s sell mass produced garbage and rely on name brand recognition only. I get that they serve a market that can afford $40 jeans but they’re also profiting at the expense of what amounts to slave labor imo.

It’s unfortunate that your jeans have structural issues. Is there any way you can return or exchange them, or is it too late? I’d be irritated as well but I’d also see if there was any way the retailer/brand will do an exchange.

 

[broiler]

Paying $200+ for denim is a personal choice. I used to roll my eyes at the idea of paying that much for any article of clothing but over time I changed my mind. But, I started off with budget brands first, like Gustin, Taylor Stitch and N&F before moving onto $200+ jeans.

To me, the cost of expensive denim boils down to higher material costs, skilled labor and paying a living wage to those laborers, on top of the cost of importing that item into the country. I’d rather pay more for clothing that was ethically made versus paying less where the workers are paid a pittance under questionable working conditions. Or, I’ll buy second hand from those brands whose business model I support. Companies like Levi’s sell mass produced garbage and rely on name brand recognition only. I get that they serve a market that can afford $40 jeans but they’re also profiting at the expense of what amounts to slave labor imo.

It’s unfortunate that your jeans have structural issues. Is there any way you can return or exchange them, or is it too late? I’d be irritated as well but I’d also see if there was any way the retailer/brand will do an exchange.

I probably wasn't clear in my original post. I've already sent them back and the clean pic of the inseam stitching is after the re-work. When I emailed them the first pics, Okayama Denim agreed this was unacceptable and offered to send them back to Momotaro for re-work. I requested a refund and/or store credit so I could trade out to a similar pair from one of the 10+ other Japanese brands at the same price point (I don't have any brand preference but having a seam start to fall apart after 2 hours makes me want to avoid that brand). OD declined because I had had the jeans hemmed (even though the defect wasn't my fault), so I accepted the "return" to Momotaro for re-work. I received them back 3 weeks later and it was the same pair of jeans with the stitches re-done. They re-used the same pink inseam thread which was previously worn away and weakened in that spot from friction - I'm worried it will prematurely break at that spot and start to unravel again but I won't dwell on that anymore.

So prompt response from OD. As a customer, I eventually got what I paid for but (through no fault of my own) had to wait for shipping 3 ways (paid by OD), had to re-schedule DHL pick-up (they missed their first appointment), print out int'l shipping forms, etc. and of course take pics and email OD back and forth to explain the issue.

I wouldn't demand more (and it wouldn't change anything at this point anyway) but it would have been nice and maybe even expected if OD or Momotaro had given me a partial refund or SOMETHING to acknowledge, "Hey, this is our bad and we're sorry you had to deal with this hassle. Here's a little extra for your inconvenience and we hope you keep buying our products." But they didn't. So I guess I am a little salty about the experience and would never choose to go through this again for the product I eventually received.

 

[doctorman]

just to digress. i visited OD denim in 2016 while visiting tokyo. i had their address and with my google map, i was walking around some residential neighborhood and was hopelessly lost. there was just no shops in sight.

it was a hot day and i was about to give up. as i was crossing a street, there was a man on his bike - he was perhaps of south asian descent and he probably noticed i was lost. he stopped, spoke perfect english and asked where i was going. i told him i was looking for this denim shop. he said he was the owner.

he then walked me into this residential neighborhood, where many buildings are fives stories. turned out his shop was a 2-3 bedroom apartment on the 2nd or 3rd floor of some random apartment building. he had a few people working in the apartment on their laptops and had boxes of denim/products stacked in what appeared to be an attic space with ladder access. i'm not sure he lived there but he easily could have been.

he was thoroughly proud of his business and eager to discuss denim with me. he said this is what small businesses look like in japan. he had at least one delivery while i was there. he spoke perfect japanese.

i tried on a few pairs of denim in his bathroom and ended up buying a pair of momo 701. mostly out of the novelty, my appreciation for his help, his eagerness to sell me something, and as a momento. he then had one of his assistants walk me about 30 min to a tailor (again in some unmarked random buildings) to have them hemmed.

sorry - there isn't a moral of my story. i've been watching too much seinfeld.

 

[broiler]

just to digress. i visited OD denim in 2016 while visiting tokyo. i had their address and with my google map, i was walking around some residential neighborhood and was hopelessly lost. there was just no shops in sight.

it was a hot day and i was about to give up. as i was crossing a street, there was a man on his bike - he was perhaps of south asian descent and he probably noticed i was lost. he stopped, spoke perfect english and asked where i was going. i told him i was looking for this denim shop. he said he was the owner.

he then walked me into this residential neighborhood, where many buildings are fives stories. turned out his shop was a 2-3 bedroom apartment on the 2nd or 3rd floor of some random apartment building. he had a few people working in the apartment on their laptops and had boxes of denim/products stacked in what appeared to be an attic space with ladder access. i'm not sure he lived there but he easily could have been.

he was thoroughly proud of his business and eager to discuss denim with me. he said this is what small businesses look like in japan. he had at least one delivery while i was there. he spoke perfect japanese.

i tried on a few pairs of denim in his bathroom and ended up buying a pair of momo 701. mostly out of the novelty, my appreciation for his help, his eagerness to sell me something, and as a momento. he then had one of his assistants walk me about 30 min to a tailor (again in some unmarked random buildings) to have them hemmed.

sorry - there isn't a moral of my story. i've been watching too much seinfeld.

That's a great anecdote and OD sounds like the kind of small business I'd prefer to support. And your 701's have a much cooler backstory than mine do so far. I actually passed through Okayama prefecture back in 2018 and could have done some denim shopping had I known it was a thing there or had the interest (I didn't at the time - only became curious over the past year due to WFH). Korakuen Park is beautiful though.

 

[broiler]

UPDATE: My concerns with the "repair" work were justified. After 7 days of daily wear, the pink inseam thread broke in the same spot as before with seam now weakened and starting to unravel again. I believe the issue was Momotaro half-assed the "repair" by re-using the same thread and simply stitching over it on the inside, creating a clean-looking contrast seam on the outside, but with irregular stitching visible on the inside which was structurally weaker than if the seam had been done cleanly and evenly in the first place with a continuous thread.

I sent the pic below to OD and they agreed this was unacceptable, paid for return shipping (again) and have offered me the choice of refund or exchange.

So summary of what happened:

1) I paid full online retail for Momotaro 701 jeans from OD and received them 1 month ago.
2) Out of the bag, pink inseam was missing some stitches and the seam started to come apart and unravel after 2 hours of wear
3) OD agreed this was unacceptable and offered to send them back to Momotaro for repair (I asked for refund but they declined because jeans had been hemmed)
4) I received jeans back 3 weeks later and they appeared cosmetically fine from the outside, but with visible irregular stitching on the inside where they had sewn over the pink inseam. I decided to accept it and just wear them.
5) After 7 days normal daily wear (sitting, walking, stretching), pink thread broke and started unravelling again in the spot with irregular repair stitching

I really wanted to like these jeans. Other than the absurd two time failure of the inseam stitch, they seemed well made and after 1 week of break in, were just starting to be comfortable. I don't know what's going on at Momotaro but maybe they have a new factory worker who doesn't know how to do proper inseam stitching or something. Whatever it is, for them to accept a defective pair back for re-work and then **** that up so badly that it fails AGAIN 1 week later is just insane.

I do give high marks to OD for their prompt email responses and being generally reasonable. I have no affiliation or prior experience with either Momotaro or OD so I'm just calling it like I see it.

 

[ChasingStyle]

I'd just assume it was a random event of bad luck and move on, I think that's what most people would do anyway - send it back and get a new pair in exchange.

Momotaro is a solid brand (part of the Japan Blue Group) that has been there for quite a while, I think over 15 years, and it's one of the best known and more respected denim brands in Japan, a culture obsessed with details, and part of a denim subculture that is even more anal about it. I've been to their shop in Kojima and the level of care is absolutely impressive.

What I'm trying to say is, I'm not sure there's a case for this whole "MOMOTARO IS GOING DOWNHILL" narrative based on this single experience. Maybe you've done a ton of research and found some additional data points, but it's definitely not my experience, or anything close to what I've heard or seen in general about them.

You might want to look at some of the other Japanese brands in any case - Studio D'Artisan, Iron Heart and Pure Blue Japan are at the top of my list alongside Momotaro.

Sugar Cane, Samurai and Oni are also well respected, but I've never owned any so can't comment.

 

[SixOhNine]

Samurai uses all cotton constructional thread, so if you don't like popped stitches, I'd advise you to steer well clear.

For what it's worth, I've owned two pairs of Momotaro and have a third pair on order. I like their t-shirts, too. I've never had any quality issues with anything.

 

[ghdvfddzgzdzg]

just repair it -- go over it with a needle and thread

 

[broiler]

I'd just assume it was a random event of bad luck and move on, I think that's what most people would do anyway - send it back and get a new pair in exchange.

Momotaro is a solid brand (part of the Japan Blue Group) that has been there for quite a while, I think over 15 years, and it's one of the best known and more respected denim brands in Japan, a culture obsessed with details, and part of a denim subculture that is even more anal about it. I've been to their shop in Kojima and the level of care is absolutely impressive.

What I'm trying to say is, I'm not sure there's a case for this whole "MOMOTARO IS GOING DOWNHILL" narrative based on this single experience. Maybe you've done a ton of research and found some additional data points, but it's definitely not my experience, or anything close to what I've heard or seen in general about them.

You might want to look at some of the other Japanese brands in any case - Studio D'Artisan, Iron Heart and Pure Blue Japan are at the top of my list alongside Momotaro.

Sugar Cane, Samurai and Oni are also well respected, but I've never owned any so can't comment.

I took them up on an exchange - despite the frustrations, OD was so helpful and polite over email that I wanted to give them my business. I would have preferred a similar design in a different brand (Full Count 1108XX looked perfect but they didn't have my size in stock). Out of morbid curiosity, I was also interested in the same Momotaro 701's to see if the third time could be a charm. But they were out of stock in size 32 with no re-stock anticipated. So I settled for Momo 701's in size 33.

They arrived today and look good with no irregular stitching although as expected, they're a little looser than I'd prefer. Size 32 was ball-crushingly tight and I couldn't even button top button at first, but they had stretched to be comfortable in the top block after 1 week. Size 33 hips and thighs are comfortably snug to start, but the waist is a little too big which is concerning to me. These are one wash so I'm not expecting any further shrinkage and am considering a hot soak or wash. All considered, size 32 was probably the better fit for what I wanted, but I'll live with the 33.

Samurai uses all cotton constructional thread, so if you don't like popped stitches, I'd advise you to steer well clear.

For what it's worth, I've owned two pairs of Momotaro and have a third pair on order. I like their t-shirts, too. I've never had any quality issues with anything.

Did you pre-order one of the 15th anniversary jeans? I really liked the look of both the broken twill and left-hand twill and would have gone for either one had it not been for the battle stripes.

 

[SixOhNine]

Did you pre-order one of the 15th anniversary jeans? I really liked the look of both the broken twill and left-hand twill and would have gone for either one had it not been for the battle stripes.

Yeah, I ordered the broken twill. I love the battle stripes; to me that and the bright pink inseam thread define the brand. If I ever considered buying a pair without the stripes, I'd paint them on myself.