Mod to Suedehead

[browniecj]



Sorry, I think it's my fault we went off topic for a while there .......

Just on the subject of names   - Is it offensive to call someone from Liverpool a Scouser? Some people claim it is, others not. It's all in the delivery - If I'm talking to a Liverpudlian and I say "Scouse humour is different to Manchester humour" then that wouldn't be a problem. On the other hand if I was to say, "That's the trouble with you f*cking Scousers, your'e not as funny as you think you are" then that would be a different matter! They call us Mancs.  They refer to United and United fans as "The Mancs", that makes me laugh though, as most of 'em aren't from Manchester! I particularly like the term "Mickey Mouser" which is used in Manchester, (rhymes with scouser)

Similarly the word "****" was originally used as a shortened version of Pakistani (as in Aussie for Australian) It was the way it became used that made it derogatory. Unfortunately my mother (aged 89) still uses the word, almost inevitably prefixed by the word "bloody". Our American members will relate to this - I watched a T.V. Series on the American Civil War in which a southerner claimed that until his 20's he had never heard the term "Yankee" without the word "Damn" if front of it, so much so that as a child he thought it was all one word!

In my own blunt way,that is what I was talking about.They were Slang words.I would say"I went to the **** Shop on the Corner" or I went to the "Chinky Take-away".To tell People where I went,as opposed to I went to Dewhursts` or Burtons.We did not know their Names who ran the Corner Shop etc.The one about ***** was a Question that has always baffled me.Again,nothing more nothing less.

 

[MikeDT]



In my own blunt way,that is what I was talking about.They were Slang words.I would say"I went to the **** Shop on the Corner" or I went to the "Chinky Take-away".To tell People where I went,as opposed to I went to Dewhursts` or Burtons.We did not know their Names who ran the Corner Shop etc.The one about ***** was a Question that has always baffled me.Again,nothing more nothing less.

I'm hungry, probably find one of them around here. We used to say things like that all the time when we was at school, **** shop, Chinky, etc. This was in Bristol, where black people were often referred to as chombies. Was just slang, and thought nothing of it.

 

[browniecj]



I'm hungry, probably find one of them around here.

 

[roytonboy]

Anyway, back on topic.....

Man. City v. Chelsea. 6th Jan. 1973

We turned up at Maine Road on a foggy Saturday for the game against Chelsea - the turnstiles were not open and a burly police sargeant told us that the ref. was inspecting the pitch. We hung around, hung around, hung around until eventually, at about two o'clock it was anounced that the match had been postponed. By this time, of course, there were hundreds of people milling around - Saturday afternoon, no match - what was a boot boy to do? Someone anounced, "Oldham are playing Bolton this afternoon, let's go there!" Now, Oldham against Bolton was a big local derby and lads at school had been buzzing about it all week due to the amount of trouble there had been the previous season. The proposal was met with general approval and about 200 of the Kippax's finest began marching off down the road. A couple of Chelsea fans of about our age enquired where we were going and on hearing about it decided to come to! We marched into town and down to Victoria Station for the service train to Oldham. There were so many of us that they put a couple of extra carriages on and packed in like sardines we shunted off, no doubt to the great relief of BR staff in Victoria. At Oldham Werneth we were all instructed to disembark and the 200 or so of us, all wearing City colours, were given a police escort and marched the the final mile and a half to Boundary Park. Of course, by the time we finally arrived it was already half time and all the turnstiles were closed. No problem, we found one of the large exit doors behind the open end and about a dozen of us got our hands underneath it and simply lifted it up off it's hinges! In a scene akin to the storming of Badajoz in the 'Sharpe' series, we poured through the breach. Once inside we found the stadium to be absolutely rammed full. So much so that some Bolton fans were walking across the side of the pitch to the Open End as the Wanderers would be kicking that way in the second half. All the City fans,naturally, wanted to be in the Chaddy End and the only way was for us to make the opposite journey

You could see the bemusement on the faces of the Bolton supporters - "What the f*ck are these City fans doing here?" and fights broke out there and then on the pitch. Lots of Blues piled straight into the Bolton hard core who had remained in the Chaddy End and loads were ejected by police before the second half commenced - all that way and never even saw a ball being kicked - crazy days! I have occasionally wondered how those two Chelsea fans got home - they musn't have had a clue where on earth they were!

Fashion note - some of the Bolton fans were still dressed in Levi denim Jacket and Jeans and cherry red Doc Martens a good 20 months after this look had waned in Manchester. I saw a group after the match with their girlfriends - the lads were dressed in this manner and were just growing their hair from skinheads. I was 18 at the time and these guys were all clearly older than me and had long, now quite thick, sideburns. At the time they looked dated but, to be fair, they had "kept the faith". By this time fashion locally had splintered and the skinhead/suedehead look all but gone. Kids around Manchester were painting their Doc Marten's red and black (City), blue and yellow (United) or, even worse, silver (Gary Glitter!) 'Our' look was virtually over - kids were wearing Slade caps, penny round collars "Football Jumpers" , "Star Jumpers" and "Budgie Jackets" A few weeks before I had 'got off' with a girl at a disco. Both she and her sister (steady, I only got off with one of them!) had been of the suedehead persuasion but now both were wearing glittery make up.

 

[ek77]



An Irish newspaper, no?

you are right...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evening_Press

 

[flyfronted]

Are you saying I have childish views flyfronted,because I have just put a query about the Names.The one thing that is not discussed properly in this Country is Immigration etc.Why,because the People who call all the isms out are not mature enough,to talk about it.I did not say I call Blacks "*******" just asked the Question why.they call it themselves.The thing is "Boneheads" belong to the Right and the Left-because they have been indoctrinated with the Propoganda(from either side).They are then used by People who have not got the Guts to fight the Battles for themselves.It is alright to split the "Working Class".As I said this was a Democracy,and in it People were allowed to speak and ask Questions-I do not like what some People say or write but that is their Right.So lets not start calling People Names eh?

I find it totally bizzare that in 2013 Grown men are asking such questions.

 

[flyfronted]

Just to add my opinion. Been awhile since I've been here. Really surprised how race and politics got mixed up in this otherwise informative discussion board about sartorial sense.

Its all a matter of context and the history behind those terms. "****" "*****" "*****r" "***" or "Yid" were historically used for derogatory purposes, whereas "Yank" or "Brit" didn't have the same connotation and they don't provoke the same emotions of lynchings, or slavery (especially for blacks when "*****r" is used) because the way I see it the word "Brit" was often used as a term of endearment or an abbreviated word for British, nothing more. There are racial and derogatory terms for White people in general, but Brit or Yank is not one of them. "resident of Britain" could be a derogatory term depending on context, but I believe that term originally was a nickname for British sailors. In America white people invented all sorts of derogatory terms for other white people. "Mick" and "racist term for people of Polish descent"were all offensive terms as a result of American nativist sentiments against Irish and Polish mmigrants in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

IN ONE . Now as we all love Black Music and wear clobber that in the 60s was bordering on 'Wigga ' can we get back on track.

 

[Mr Knightley]

IN ONE . Now as we all love Black Music and wear clobber that in the 60s was bordering on 'Wigga ' can we get back on track.

Yes, let's.

I think the discussion about race and racism has taken the thread off course. I say that because, although racism was a part of our way of life then (and of course still is), it has nothing to do with this thread. Racism was ingrained in the whole of society and as such is not relevant to discussions about Mod to Suedehead. To include it implies that it was more pronounced among us - skinheads in particular.

And it’s just very boring.

What about shoes? What about Prince of Wales check? What about the colour of socks? Let’s talk about them.

Wearing of shirts outside in the summer is something we adopted with the coming of real American BDs. It was partly in order to display the writing that was often stamped on the tail containing very un-English wording such as ‘soil-away fabric’ or ‘soil release’! Cool ,eh?

 

[harrysgame]



Early 70s calling a Black kid a *****r would have got you a slap .. i had plenty of well dressed black pals and never used that word around em .

Yeah, but what about when you wern't around them.

 

[harrysgame]



The word **** is not racist in itself but it was a term invented by racists so it became racist . If grown men think calling Chinese people Chinkys is ok then they are idiots .

Invented by racists? are you for real.

 

[Lasttye]



I could be wrong, Roy, but I don't remember this one. Thank Della - this will be great to have for the press-cutting section of the book.

Here is another Paul from the Mirror photo of Skinhead boy and girl in sheepskin..again donated by Della

Note that the girl says she went to the Barbers to get her hair cut that short like the other girls. ...as also said by my mate Noreen in 69.....and photo evidence of Mary Smith in 68.

 

[TomMc666]

Not sure if these have been on here before

A foreign view



1970, hair seems longer, a few sheepskins in there

 

[Little Queenie]



Some moderation is needed. This thread is out of order in my humble opinion.

I like a bit of aggro: this thread is meant to be about Skinheads after all!

 

[browniecj]



I find it totally bizzare that in 2013 Grown men are asking such questions.

There are many Questions being asked,by others who are more educated than me.So maybe you ought get out more.

 

[Bob the Badger]

I didn't see any **** bashing back in 1969. I reckon a lot of that was a media creation. Young skinheads might mouth off to the newspapers but my reality was different. We used to go to Brick Lane on a Sunday and the Bangladeshi people had taken up residence there but they were older than us, married with small children. They also tended to dress Western and were trying to fit in. Not like their children and grandchildren today. We didn't see ****'s our age. My Gran, living in the East End, used to call Black people 'Darkies' but it wasn't meant offensively.
We lived in a bubble were we only recognised boys (and girls!) between the ages of 15 to 19. Any fighting tended to be within our peer group. Others were ignored.We used the term Chinky for takeaways. Hardly saw any Chinese except in their shops.We also used the term **** shop.Young West Indians did their own thing, went to their own clubs,pubs.My mates were only interested in having a good time.In my mob the political views were probably across the spectrum but we didn't spend much time talking politics. We talked about clothes,music,girls,football,clubs and pubs. Immigration was on a scale that could be absorbed. Today, with mass immigration, I feel an outsider in my own City. Racism existed then as it does now. Ask West Indians and Africans what they think of each other. Jews and Arabs.Indians and Pakistani's etc,etc.
During 'the troubles' I was called a Brit on several occasions by Catholics from Northern Ireland. It was meant as an insult but I quite liked the term. Water off a ducks back. I never did get upset by verbal insults.Getting head-butted had a far greater effect on me.