Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.
I agree; mutton, dressed as mutton... is still an old sheep.
In reply to buttons last post(I`d have "quoted" it but as I`m new here,it might take a day or 2 to approve it and by then could get missed)...
As I see it,it`s quite clear in my eyes,if you are a skinhead then you wear skinhead clothes.You could get away with letting your crop grow out a bit and dip into the suedehead image as there isn`t much between them except for a lack of DM`s and more of an emphasis on formal attire.But once you go down the route of beagle collars,ruperts,Norweigens,etc then,in my opinion that ain`t skinhead.If you want to talk about transitional periods between mod and Smoothie and all the stages inbetween-where do you draw the line? We could all be regular Mr Ben`s and change our style/image depending on which way the wind was blowing if we choose to,but that really isn`t my cup of tea.
Rolled up jeans for me look too bulky and smack of a lack of attention to detail.I`d rather have them hemmed but without a turn-up than see them rolled up.All bar one of my pairs of jeans have sewn in 1/2" turn ups.I realise that the trend in "traditional skinhead" circles is for 1" turn ups but I`m of the 80`s generation and old habits die hard.
Also,I don`t label myself as an original or traditional skinhead,I`m just a skinhead-all these bloody labels do my head in.I`m not into politics(though I`ve got plenty of opinions-but ain`t we all),I am very into reggae/ska but I`m also into Oi and I don`t mind a bit of northern/Tamla/Stax.I like my tattoos,I usually have a my hair "down to the wood" or a grade 1 and I sometimes wear an Alpha MA1 when I`m on my scooter or going to work and back and if I`m nipping out to run my kids about or popping to the local shop for a pint of milk,I may just go there in a pair of Adidas Sambas(Shock-horror!!).
My idea of skinhead gear:
Harringtons(good quality like Combat,Baracutta or Fred Perry and if you`re really lucky-Sky Jump)
Jean jackets-Levi or Wrangler
Monkey jackets(my preference is Fred Perry or a nice vintage one)
Cord jean jackets-levi or wrangler
Alpha MA1 or MA2
Fly front mac
Camo M65(scooter attire)
Button down in Gingham,window pane,tartan,striped or plain(too many variations to list,but we all know the usual suspects from Brook Brothers to Arnold Palmer,Jon Wood and beyond)
Grandad shirts-plain or striped
Fred Perry polo
All of the above in a multitude of the known variations of selvedge and non-selvedge but always well ironed and with sewn in turn ups
Decent Sta-prest in a straight leg style(not Relco,Merc,JTG,etc) preferbly Levis and ultimately Empire-Made ones
Flat front,straight leg good quality suit trousers in Tonic/two tone,plain colours,prince of wales or maybe dogtooth
Tank tops-v neck in plain or fair isle
v neck long sleeved jumpers-plain
Cable knit cardigans-button up/pockets/football buttons
waffle knit cardigans-as above
Made in England oxblood DM`s-8 or 10 hole with black laces and polished black to "antique them up"
Brogues(mine are NPS but many of you guys have a multitude of preferences)
Brogue boots(same as above)
Loafers(my favourites are Frank Wrights)
For summer wear with shorts,etc or if in a can`t be fucked mood-Adidas Sambas ;-)
Phew!! I`ll await to be shot at now for laying my tastes on the line....
I’m not having a go at you personally, Shep.
As I said, I fully agree with the statement “If you’re gonna call yourself a skinhead, then dress like one”. And I would say that means dressing like one all the time. Not dressing up for the 5 times a year reggae dance, then in between dressing like someone else. That may be for some people, but in my mind hardly constitutes being a skinhead. Its little more than fancy dress.
The beagle collared end of things – if you’re gonna go for that look, then fine, go for it. But whilst not just changing me style from one week to the next, I (and this is me, personally) will dress across a period that suits my hairstyle. When I had longer hair (feather cut), I dressed from ’71 to ’73. When I have shorter hair, I dress in earlier clothes, so the whole image fits in. To be honest, I lost the feathers as I missed the earlier skinhead look too much, that I’d done for so long previously. All them striped shirts taunting me from the wardrobe! ha ha.
So, using GS’s term from before of the “skinhead umbrella”, in the past I’ve taken this as ‘67ish to ‘73ish. ’73?!! Cry the Londoners! But I mean, up north as suedehead went to smoothie, approaching soul boy in parallel trousers and the likes and the now termed world of ‘Northern Soul’ allnighters. And for the record, for many at the time, it was still called ‘skinhead’ (or suedehead, or smoothie or didn’t have a name as such). Finding a haircut that suits the whole period doesn’t really work. So in more recent years, I dressed to the later period when my hair was long and the earlier period when it was short. Now whilst the later look isn’t many people’s taste, I do find it laughable that I’d be criticised for not being a skinhead (in a 1972 hoodlum get up), when (and this is not just directed at Shep) when Adidas plimsoles, reggae T-shirts, cheap Levis, 5 days of stubble etc are all considered somehow acceptable. That’s not skinhead either.
Now when I say skinhead, for me that means original skinhead or traditional if you like. So if anyone doesn’t dress to that code, then that’s totally fair but a different set of ‘rules’ apply, then modern Tattoos, anything Ben Sherman, Dr Marten and Fred Perry knock out these days, running shoes etc can all be thrown in the mix. But for me and what generally gets discussed on this thread, that’s a different story.
So as for clothes I like and don’t, it would take all day to list all of what I own and like, but I’ve got more than half of what Shep mentioned (but just the original stuff).
And as for the Peacock stuff mentioned yesterday about suits, of course there’s gonna be one up man ship – always has been in some respect and I’d like to think there always will. There’s some suits that were being made back then that would have been the coolest thing in town (in a specific location, amongst a certain bunch of lads), which if done 6 months earlier would have been laughable, and similar 6 months after. That doesn’t make it wrong – in its time, it was great and revered by all. Obviously there’s times when you get it wrong (like S&P’s mate with the long grey jacket). Same thing happens on the skinhead scene today – it can be very competitive, but there’s always steps too far in the wrong direction. Some you win, some you lose!
It's about time the high street stores brought back the three-button whistle!
I've had enough of every bloke you see dressing like Ed Milliband and David Cameron with a two-button jacket and the bottom of the strides bagging on the shoes. Maybe if adult blokes dressed with some style then the younger 'scruffy cnuts' (I love that term - thank you, Roy) would have some incentive not to dress in stuff that looks like hop sacks tied with string.
Not to mention hats that look like bloody condoms!
Er... in my humble opinion anyway.
I hate concertina-bottomed trousers - is it laziness, or don't they have a full-length mirror?
No excuse, IMHO, tailoring alterations are as cheap as chips.
When I first joined Style Forum, it was largely because this thread had been flagged up (by Kingstonian, I think) at Talk Ivy over on FNB where I used to ‘hang out’. I was encouraged by the focus on the traditional skinhead way of life – clothes, music, social habits and so on. At first, that was exactly what it provided.
Lately there seems to have been something of a shift in emphasis – much of it to do with discussion on trying to replicate in 2012 the style of the skinhead and the need to get the details just right. Questions have been posed about what is the ‘true’ skinhead style. Buttons has spent some time reflecting on this and suggests we could interpret skinhead as somehow covering the years 1967 – 1973 and to say that it may thus cover a variety of different styles.
As I say, I joined the debate to contribute what I could (and continue to learn) about ‘traditional skinheads’. To my mind, this means a style that evolved in and around the capital during the late 1960s and was crystallised by the time 1968 became 1969 - only to begin to decline by the end of that year. A generous interpretation might allow autumn 1968 to spring 1970 as the period of the traditional skinhead. As Roy often points out this all happened in and around London. There were obviously attempts elsewhere and at different times to replicate some of the look but that is surely not really the subject of this thread.
I suppose there is only so much that can be said on a subject before things start to get just a little repetitive or begin to stray significantly from the path. I am of course conscious that things need to be self-policing and that I have a role in that respect too. But I wonder if other long-standing posters agree that we have lately strayed a good way from the intended path, I mean pictures of suits with multiple and oversized pockets, pictures of Slade in the early 1970s and claims that penny round collars are somehow part of the skinhead canon….. What is that all about?
I happen to find the period from early 1970 to 1971 very interesting and have often tried here and elsewhere to generate a discussion about how and why skinhead evolved into ‘smooth’ or suedehead. Unfortunately, when I tried it here by starting a new thread there were few takers. But my point is that this is really a different topic.
I am sure the thread is not dead but the purity is now missing….
I agree Brideshead in what you say.
I agree . I could've contributed more -but as I was only just born at the time the originals started I would rather learn from people who were actually there at the time as I thought thats what this thread was about. Now it seems to be going off topic a lot with people missing the point....maybe they haven't read all 441 pages properly yet to get a grasp of the thread.....
....but they should!!
that´s exactly what i think and do.. i dont dress-up or doing some re-enactment for the weekend.. i pick out what i like and dress like i think it is looks good on me every day... and dont give a shit what others think...
I largely agree, John: the purity has been somewhat sullied. Though I can't agree with the entirely London-centric view, I do appreciate that it is your perspective. I must say I have always greatly enjoyed your posts and think it was a shame that the 'other' thread didn't seem to draw much attention, though its subject matter has clearly been discussed on this thread: a little ironic?
It seems that rather than the high quality offerings of the 'core' contributors, a rather diluted commentary from all and sundry about what they consider 'to be' or 'not to be' 'Skinhead' has prevailed. I am reminded of an interesting conversation amongst friends being interrupted by a stranger intent on a banal change of subject: it doesn't inspire contribution!
Perhaps like an errant child this thread needs to be 'taken in hand': it would be a great pity to let it die, but it does seem to be following the trajectory of the 'great lost look’ itself!
i´m with you and only would to add camo trousers for me, cause i´m more into the 80s skinhead style then into 1969...
Firstly, if there was a 70-71 thread, I think this would be great but I barely have time to keep up with this one, so sorry I missed it.
I don't think there was ever a rule as to what the thread discussed, as long it was about traditional skinheads.
And don't get me wrong, an invaluable document in my opinion, that's been of great interest.
Whilst much of the discussion has been around the London scene of '68-'69, that's largely been the case because of the heavy contributors being largely from London.
There's been a shift with the introduction of the likes of Ed, whose Manchester roots give a very different slant to things. Plus other, obviously.
I still think that although what was happening in London in '68-'70 was a key part to the whole skinhead style, its very short sighted to dismiss what went on outside of the capital as not being a part of original skinhead culture. So if 'skinheads' in the north are wearing beagle collared shirts in 1972, is that not a part of it all? If Northern skinheads are just to be considered unfashionable copy cats, who are a bit like the London skinheads of two years gone .....but shit, that's missing out on a massive part of the original skinhead situation.
I'll admit the thread's not for me to go on about how I interpret things nowadays - its relevant but not strictly to the point. If anything, I was just responding to other input to put my two-penneth in (as you's Londoners would say).
So whilst I can listen to Colin, Roy and Paul talk about the old days all day long, I think our Wrangler wearing, pocket flapped friends in the north should not be forgotten.
this thread never had an agenda (AFAIK) when London Rudeboy (aka Spirit of 69) started it years ago, it started with "new breed" contributors talking about their take on traditional skinhead (because there were no originals who posted on this forum), and def took a proper turn when original guys like Roy, Paul, Colin, John, etc joined to share their experiences. so like most threads it takes on tangents, but personally I dont mind a wider encompassing of topics, and while the "is it skinhead or not" debate has gone on for years on every skinhead forum out there, it's always a good source of debate, and relates back to the original style since it brings out an opportunity to clear any myths and fill in some blanks.
I think it'd be interesting to incorporate the talk of early 70s smooth into this thread rather than isolating it on a different thread, because like it or not that style is a part of the traditional skinhead look for many involved in 2012. tho personally I aint a fan
Interesting to hear what the original thread starter thinks about how this thread has evolved.
I think the recent addition of many members off UKSH have put a well needed fresh angle on things on here.
Maybe it has turned into an 'Ask Andy' type of forum. But that's just my opinion
I'm going to stop posting as I've asked all the questions I wanted to know, and I have nothing to contribute on the original scene. As I'm 38.
Suffice to say, the thread has been an invaluble source of information. I've enjoyed it.
Little Queenie - I think you may be referring to me in your 'banal' comment For which I'm sorry.
Separate names with a comma.