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Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Lasttye

    Lasttye Senior member

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    The 60s Ben Sherman was a quality bit of kit, then i moved onto the American imports from the Ivy shop.
    The fit was baggier the half sleeves would come down to just above the elbow baggy and no silly buttons and V, The pleat at the back was ironed in and it was considered nath to sew the pleat in.
    The Brutus and Jaytex was much more slimmer fit, this was like most cheap shirts less material makes more shirts.
    What i cannot understand these days is the obsession with Brutus, they was crap in 70 and still are, crazy that people will pay a fortune for a Brutus made in 70.

    I have looked for Years to find the perfect shirt for me, and find Faconnable as near as, but expensive that will last a lifetime.:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  2. buttons

    buttons Senior member

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    That green check shirt is a Brutus.
    You can tell by the cut of the collar, front placket width, sleeve, check, top pocket etc etc (and the fact that it is a Brutus).
    Jaytex never did a vee in the sleeve. If Soundsnpressue's mate has some, they've been butchered, like so many in the popular modern day quest, that I never agreed with, where everything must be made to look as much like a Brutus as possible. Criminal.
    When Ben Sherman did their short sleeved candy stripes, they had a half inch fold on a plain short sleeve with a button sewn through the fold.
    When BS did the short sleeved plain oxford cloth button downs in '69, they did a cuffed short sleeve, but with the same half inch fold and single button. This style remained throughout the short sleeved check, dark (and bright) plain polycottons and was briefly seen on early penny collars.
    Jaytex copied the early Ben Sherman sleeve with a plain hemmed short sleeve, fold and button on all their check button downs of late '69 and throughout '70.
    Brutus did a vee with a button at each side which was copied by many many cheaper makes in 1970 and beyond.
    Naytex were a rip-off of Jaytex, cashing in on Jaytex's popularity in 1970, but they weren't an exact copy - generally similar but almost every detail changed (proving it was from a different factory). As an asside, Naytex did sta press and Cardigans as well, to sell to the young skinhead market.
    The 'fancy' short sleeve designs were a common feature in the British skinhead shirts, as was full box pleats and slim-fit darts. Very different to the larger fitting yank button downs.

    Also, as another asside, that pic of the Jaytex factory if from about late '71, when beagle collars were the standard. They used the same font on the shirt labels, but definitely post-button-down.
     


  3. DrBassie

    DrBassie Well-Known Member

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    I really dig Faconnable shirts (I'm wearing one in my avatar). Luckily, there's a Faconnable discount store in my hometown. Some of their sizing is weird though. I've had some shirts that fit perfectly while others had a lot of extra fabric in the waist (probably to account for the American gut). I've also had to go the a size S (!) to get some to fit right (minus the collar size). I'm a size L in Ben Sherman, Brutus, etc. Talk about vanity sizing.

    I have some Brutus shirts and I like their fit. I don't pay full price though.
     


  4. Lasttye

    Lasttye Senior member

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    Interesting Buttons, The Ben Shermans i had was all long sleeve Oxford weave, Never saw or had a Striped or Check BS, The ivy/Squire shop did some lovely checks American imports.

    Regarding the sleeve button on a BS i never noticed that, maybe the lads cut the sleeves off the early BSs .:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  5. Kingstonian

    Kingstonian Senior member

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    Most Ben Shermans I owned were striped - preferably blue. They did have an amazing range of colours - better than the American shirts. Far better than what is available today too. Unfortunately they were all slimfit with a sewn up box pleat. Most kids were not fat in those days. So getting into them was no bother, but the looser fitting US shirts were the preferred look. There was also a massive cost difference; so Ben Sherman was for run of the mill occasions and American was for going out on the town.

    I had Brutus too but never Jaytex. I thought they were OK. I preferred a full half sleeve to one that similar dimensions to a polo shirt.
     


  6. Kingstonian

    Kingstonian Senior member

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    Most Ben Shermans I owned were striped - preferably blue. They did have an amazing range of colours - better than the American shirts. Far better than what is available today too. Unfortunately they were all slimfit with a sewn up box pleat. Most kids were not fat in those days. So getting into them was no bother, but the looser fitting US shirts were the preferred look. There was also a massive cost difference; so Ben Sherman was for run of the mill occasions and American was for going out on the town.

    I had Brutus too but never Jaytex. I thought they were OK. I preferred a full half sleeve to one that similar dimensions to a polo shirt.
     


  7. buttons

    buttons Senior member

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    Interesting stuff lads.
    Ben Sherman, Jaytex, Brutus etc all did their long sleeved versions, obviously but the sleeve differences are a lot more prominent on the short sleeved versions.
    However, Ben Sherman accomodated cuff links where the other two didn't.
    From a quality point of view, Jaytex are a much nicer shirt than Brutus in my opinion, but neither match a proper Benny.
    I'm assuming part of the attraction of the American button downs is that the likes of the Ivy shop had a limited selection, so once they'd gone, they'd get a different batch in. That way, there's a lot less chance of going to a club and seeing two other lads in the same colour (more so with the stripes and checks than say a pale blue or white oxford).
     


  8. buttons

    buttons Senior member

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    As for cutting the sleeves off, when there's plenty in the shops, if ye want a short sleeved one, ye buy a short sleeved one.
    Maybe if you messed it up in a fight or wore it to death and the elbow had thinned out, but I wouldn't have thought that was common.
     


  9. Lasttye

    Lasttye Senior member

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    All the stuff i put on here is from memory, and not research, I never saw a checked BS,...never had a striped BS and don't really remember them,
    Just dug this book out that my mate Tom has lent me, from the Ben Sherman book,

    Attached is a pic of 60s Striped Ben Shermans, :D

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  10. buttons

    buttons Senior member

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    I've got a few original striped Bennies - love 'em.
    Neither of the two in the pic though, sadly.
    If its not too obvious, what's the name of the book?
     


  11. Lasttye

    Lasttye Senior member

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    The White Ben Sherman was a classic, it looked cool under that blue light that was popular back then,
    Yes the Ivy/Squire shop would stock those American imports that would have a limited run. So it was rare you would see another bloke wearing them at a dance, Girls and the blokes would often comment on your shirt, which made you fell great, :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  12. Lasttye

    Lasttye Senior member

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    Tom lent me the book some months ago, so i just had a quick look and saw the shirts, had to put them up on here,
    The book is called My Favourite Shirt, A History of Ben Sherman Style.
    By Paolo Hewitt & Terry Rawlings, Published 2004.
     


  13. amathew

    amathew Senior member

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    When and how did SHARP emerge out of the skinhead scene?
    And furthermore, was Antifa originally created by skinheads, though perhaps in the 70s or 80s.

    Traditional skinhead may not have been ideological, but I can't help but give any lad who takes
    on nazi-scum a pat on the back.
     


  14. OHT

    OHT Senior member

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    When you Originals say you wore your BD shirts a little looser/baggier, how loose/baggier do you mean? Was it like this:
    [​IMG]
    Guy on the right
     


  15. OHT

    OHT Senior member

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    Just so you know, in this thread we avoid all those "chapters" like SHARP or WP,etc. We're only interested in the Original/Traditional Skinhead way.
     


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